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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
| Dungeon Lords: Development Update & Demo Comments from H |
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The recent 'Dungeon Lords' demo elicited a huge response from readers here and elsewhere, with comments of both criticism and support. The obvious question was - with the game still in development, how closely did this demo reflect the final game? We approached Heuristic Park for comment and Artistic Director 'Chuk' was kind enough to give us this update:<blockquote><em>The game has made a considerable progress since the released demo. While the demo did not represent a final, polished segment of the completed game (which I'm sure most people were expecting), it has turned out to be a pivotal source of information from first-time users, and has provided us with a GREAT list of constructive feedback!
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<br>We have been hard at work making changes to the game based on the new info, as well as finalizing starting classes (with their skill cost balancing and availability), starting class equipment (including mage/adept spell) etc.
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<br>We have modified the initial difficulty to make it more friendly to new players while still allowing players to wander into the woods and get some hairier battles if they so desire. The new difficulty modifications will allow people to adjust to the gameworld more gradually without being beset by more foes than they should be able to handle.
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<br>Camping is also in, allowing players to rest their characters, heal, wait until their preferred time of day to break camp, and recharge their magic.
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<br>That's the short short list of some of the more interesting and easy to describe changes that have already been made.
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<br>Differences between the Demo and the Game:
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<br>We gave the players far more abilities, skills, spells, in the demo than they will have in the beginning of the game (so they could test drive some of the cool stuff) and demo users can also take advantages of the Revive key having no penalty. Users should take note: The starting equipment, skill availability and super revive key present in the demo are not indicative of starting player loadout in the final game (which will be a very limited set of spells and equipment, based on starting class).
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<br>We appreciate everyone's interest and feedback! All the user input has been VERY valuable and we have studied it all very closely. The changes based on user feedback are even occurring while I type this, and I will be heading down the hall to provide assistance in these matters as soon as I'm done writing this.  I have been testing the new changes and balancing myself and I am very happy with the way things are progressing.</em></blockquote>You can also find some specific <a href="http://dreamcatcherinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php?p=142102#post142102" target="_blank">details</a> from Chuk on the Dreamcatcher forums about some of the class starting equipment and rebalancing, including some interesting points on what appears to be a fairly significant change to the way spell charges work. |
Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:15 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
While they are obviously trying to put a positive spin on the Demo's release, I just hope that it's strong initial negative impact doesn't carry over to sales of the release. I think many people will WAIT before buying to see what the reviewers have to say!!
_________________
If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:32 am |
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roqua1
Guest
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not me, I'm a stupid idiot. I'm going to buy it on release day and rub my nipples on it for no reason.
I just saw Ned Kelly, good movie (just saying it since both of you are from there). |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:43 am |
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vid
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by roqua1
not me, I'm a stupid idiot. I'm going to buy it on release day and rub my nipples on it for no reason.
I just saw Ned Kelly, good movie (just saying it since both of you are from there).
me too. (that with the buying, not with the ah.. nipples) |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:52 am |
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Garrett
Joined: 13 Jul 2001
Posts: 74
Location: Munich, Germany |
me three! |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:46 am |
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Guest
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Well, I *would* have bought it on the release day. I really wanted this game to be the next big RPG experience, I was longing for more free-roaming 3rd-person RPG-goodness (actually what I really want is more Gothic
Now after having tried the demo I'm not so sure - I think I'll to see how the reviewers judge it. Graphics, sound and animations isn't everything in a RPG game and usually I can live with much (I frequently play very old RPG games). But this demo just plainly *screamed* low quality for me... Working in the game industry myself I can only wonder how they managed to create such poor animations, graphics and game engine over so long time.
- Kasper |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:13 am |
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methusala
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 281
Location: Odinwald |
i've had this game on pre-order for a long time and,if they make the changes as promised,I see no reason to cancell said pre-order.Talking about promise,the demo did have some of that,not everything was bad.Still looking forward to a great rpg. |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:25 am |
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vid
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
But this demo just plainly *screamed* low quality for me... Working in the game industry myself I can only wonder how they managed to create such poor animations, graphics and game engine over so long time.
that i cannot understand.
i love the gfx! hey have this unique fantasy / faery tale feeling to them, which one could almost only find with 2D hand- drawn / pixeled graphics. they create an atmosphere and fit together, and thats all i need.
the sfx.. well in the demo they were clearly just copied from wizards & warriors. but i can live with that. but maybe they were just placeholders for the demo. so who knows... |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:27 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
Despite giving it some scathing criticism (which I still stand by), the more time I spend with the demo the more I like it and I'm pleased with the changes they have/will make - particularly the new spell charge stuff, even though I remain disappointed with some of the high-level design. Still, I think it will be a fun dungeon-crawler.
As for Guest's comments, I find it hard to believe someone experienced would make such generic comments about the "game engine".
My pre-order is in.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:36 am |
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Kristophe
Obi-Wan Kermobi
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 4
Location: The Outer Banks of NC, USA |
I had pre-ordered Dungeon Lords - right up till the demo was released, at which time I cancelled my pre-order...quite frankly, I wonder that Heuristic Park will be able to make all the changes, corrections, and whatever to this game, thoroughly (and I do mean thoroughly) QA it all, and then have it out to distributors to meet the advertised store availability of 20 April 2005.
I think I'll wait until the game has been out for some little while before I consider purchasing it - just to insure the game ships without a multitude of "bugs" and/or game play problems...after all, I'd hate to get stuck with another "Pool of Radiance 2"
_________________
Memories that forgotten, cannot be... |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:53 am |
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Guest
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Well, I started up the demo again and while not quite as bad as I remembered it, it is also far from an impressive piece of technology on todays hardware. I'm sorry that you find my comments generic so let me offer a few examples that I was disappointed with. This is all just IMHO of course (which I assume I'm allowed to have
First of all - and this was before I even downloaded it - they had posted a known issue that the "current build does not support alt-tab under windows". This late in the development I find this very strange.. correctly handling alt-tab messages under windows is a core technology that should be in their engine at this point. And if not, then it should take no more than half a day for a programmer to implement that functionality if their engine is well structured. For me, this flaw made a bad impression right from the start...
The problem I have with their animation system is that the player and enemies seems to slide over the ground. In combat it feels like I'm controlling an ice-skater. When stopping up the blend into the "idle" animation is way to slow and the result is that the character seems to keep walking even when standing still. Since they seem to have licenced "Granny" for character animation it should be as easy as using the 3rd-party API more correctly to solve many of these issues (ie. they don't even have to implement new/better core animation code themselves).
As for the rendering - they have nice trees, grass etc.... but this is 2005! Why are they only using a boring standard phong lighting model with only a diffuse texture? They are using pixel shaders but doesn't use any bump-mapping or even texture masks for their specularity. As a result the characters look like they are made out of plastic with a large uniform specular highlight all over them (including on materials that should not reflect any light).
I know all this is maybe just nit-picking and a result of me being damaged from my trade But still - the demo simply lacks polish... and in games polish makes or breaks a game! The Blizzard guys also releases low-tech games - but they all shine with a superb art design and an overall polish that makes it almost impossible *not* to be impressed with their stuff. I would go as far as to say if you haven't got a polished demo, don't release a demo at all..
- Kasper |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:26 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
Well, I started up the demo again and while not quite as bad as I remembered it, it is also far from an impressive piece of technology on todays hardware. I'm sorry that you find my comments generic so let me offer a few examples that I was disappointed with. This is all just IMHO of course (which I assume I'm allowed to have
First of all - and this was before I even downloaded it - they had posted a known issue that the "current build does not support alt-tab under windows". This late in the development I find this very strange.. correctly handling alt-tab messages under windows is a core technology that should be in their engine at this point. And if not, then it should take no more than half a day for a programmer to implement that functionality if their engine is well structured. For me, this flaw made a bad impression right from the start...
The problem I have with their animation system is that the player and enemies seems to slide over the ground. In combat it feels like I'm controlling an ice-skater. When stopping up the blend into the "idle" animation is way to slow and the result is that the character seems to keep walking even when standing still. Since they seem to have licenced "Granny" for character animation it should be as easy as using the 3rd-party API more correctly to solve many of these issues (ie. they don't even have to implement new/better core animation code themselves).
As for the rendering - they have nice trees, grass etc.... but this is 2005! Why are they only using a boring standard phong lighting model with only a diffuse texture? They are using pixel shaders but doesn't use any bump-mapping or even texture masks for their specularity. As a result the characters look like they are made out of plastic with a large uniform specular highlight all over them (including on materials that should not reflect any light).
I know all this is maybe just nit-picking and a result of me being damaged from my trade But still - the demo simply lacks polish... and in games polish makes or breaks a game! The Blizzard guys also releases low-tech games - but they all shine with a superb art design and an overall polish that makes it almost impossible *not* to be impressed with their stuff. I would go as far as to say if you haven't got a polished demo, don't release a demo at all..
- Kasper
there are more serious issues in the demo, than the specular highlight on my characters neck. |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:54 pm |
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Roguecop
Guest
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This is a horrible mistake, I'm telling ya. The game is a medium rare piece of pork. How much can they fix in such a short time? None of the menu options work, the interface is clunker than a 76' Dodge Dart. The whole encounter system is terribly flawed. The graphics engine, sound, and voice work are all substandard.
Well, I suppose when you've run out of money what are you going to do???
The reviewers will likely tear it to pieces...
At any rate it'll be interesting to see the post mortem on this one. I can almost guarantee that DW Bradley doesn't want this thing out yet, and proably won't want his name on the header... |
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:09 pm |
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hammermd23
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 48
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LOL...yeah, the game has to go gold in the next 1.5 weeks in order to meet the shelf expectation...the idea that they can turn a pre-alpha like that turd into a shining example of DWB RPG craftsmanship in that time period is preposterous! Maybe if we're lucky, they'll release it with ~35% of the stuff fixed and then issue one big patch 6 months later (unofficially supported, of course, once again) that fixes another 35% of the bugs, so we'll only have to wait until Christmas to play a game that's only 30% buggy! |
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Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:19 am |
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
I loved the demo.
I liked wizards and warriors also though.
What it has that isnt in a game ive played in a long time is dungeons and puzzles. character building. It still has some of the old wizardry and might and magic in it.
I keep reading a whole lot of short attention span reviews where people decided they hated it because it started out with them getting killed before they even understood what the keys are.
Once you get into the maze, which is about all the demo has youll see a great game. Something like arx fatalis or gothic but a lot cooler. |
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Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:50 am |
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