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Aramas
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 38
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Since it seems that a lot of people live in imaginary world in which their prejudices are the sole arbiter of any given topic, here's a link to AnandTech's article comparing the AA on the 8500 with the GF3.
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1562
NVidia fanboys need not look, since it contains a lot of *actual information*, and that would be unfair! Even though the article is six months old the 8500 still came out well, once you consider that the AA is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT on the two cards. Using 2x AA on the 'Quality' setting is perfectly adequate, has minimal effect on performance and doesn't blur the crap out of the textures like the GF3/4's do. In the last six months the drivers have improved radically, and will continue to do so.
Being too stupid or impatient to learn to use an item does not reflect badly on said item. Rather, it's a flashing neon sign that says 'MORON' in letters ten metres tall. I guess that what we can learn from this is that if you happen to be mentally challenged and have the concentration span of a gnat, then you had best buy NVidia. 
But of course, AnandTech is lying. Those of us who are successfully using 8500's with AA are also lying. ATI's AA doesn't work at all - it's all a conspiracy against the poor, downtrodden NVidia short-bus-riding fanboys to try to shake their unqualified brand loyalty! |
Sun May 26, 2002 1:52 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Aramas
Since it seems that a lot of people live in imaginary world in which their prejudices are the sole arbiter of any given topic, here's a link to AnandTech's article comparing the AA on the 8500 with the GF3.
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1562
NVidia fanboys need not look, since it contains a lot of *actual information*, and that would be unfair! Even though the article is six months old the 8500 still came out well, once you consider that the AA is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT on the two cards. Using 2x AA on the 'Quality' setting is perfectly adequate, has minimal effect on performance and doesn't blur the crap out of the textures like the GF3/4's do. In the last six months the drivers have improved radically, and will continue to do so.
Being too stupid or impatient to learn to use an item does not reflect badly on said item. Rather, it's a flashing neon sign that says 'MORON' in letters ten metres tall. I guess that what we can learn from this is that if you happen to be mentally challenged and have the concentration span of a gnat, then you had best buy NVidia.
But of course, AnandTech is lying. Those of us who are successfully using 8500's with AA are also lying. ATI's AA doesn't work at all - it's all a conspiracy against the poor, downtrodden NVidia short-bus-riding fanboys to try to shake their unqualified brand loyalty!
Here's an idea.....instead of being one of those "MORONS" that just reads tech reviews and takes them for granted, why don't you compare the cards in YOUR OWN SYSTEM and see the difference. |
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Sun May 26, 2002 8:52 pm |
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Lordr31z
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 11 May 2002
Posts: 190
Location: United States of America |
I own both cards also. You are correct about the drivers. Sometimes removing them doesnt help. And nvidia never could alias correctly. It seems that with the latest nvidia drivers that the aliasing is pretty good on the geforce. I have a geforce3 ti200 and radeon 8500. Plus i cant see myself paying 400 dollars for a video card like the geforce4. It is rediculous and bs. It should be no higher than 250. That is the importance of real competition.  |
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Mon May 27, 2002 8:09 am |
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Warmaster-Horus
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 421
Location: Eye of Terror, Washington |
My ATI 8500le AA's fine, much better than my GeForce3 ti
_________________
Ater deus praevalo
=Leader of the Horus Heresy=
=Champion of Khorne=
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD SKULLS FOR THE THRONE |
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Mon May 27, 2002 9:03 am |
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p0rnflake
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 32
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quote:
Here's an idea.....instead of being one of those "MORONS" that just reads tech reviews and takes them for granted, why don't you compare the cards in YOUR OWN SYSTEM and see the difference.
Hellooo ?? So what you're saying is that your more of an expert on videocards than Anand and Tom ?
The Radeon 8500 Drivers are near-perfect. There are only to flaws I'm aware of and one of those are fixed in the next release (check out rage3d yourself).
Hey you like your nVidia card - fine ! I recommend those to everyone who's new to computers because they work with just about anything.. no tweaking required. But the 8500 - is not a bad card (and certainly not inferior to the Geforce 3) so stop trashing it. |
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Mon May 27, 2002 10:03 am |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by p0rnflake
quote:
Here's an idea.....instead of being one of those "MORONS" that just reads tech reviews and takes them for granted, why don't you compare the cards in YOUR OWN SYSTEM and see the difference.
Hellooo ?? So what you're saying is that your more of an expert on videocards than Anand and Tom ?
The Radeon 8500 Drivers are near-perfect. There are only to flaws I'm aware of and one of those are fixed in the next release (check out rage3d yourself).
Hey you like your nVidia card - fine ! I recommend those to everyone who's new to computers because they work with just about anything.. no tweaking required. But the 8500 - is not a bad card (and certainly not inferior to the
Geforce 3) so stop trashing it.
First of all....I wasn't trashing the card itself. The FSAA is not as good as a Geforce, pure and simple. I also was not implying that the Radeon is inferior to a Geforce 3. The funny thing is, I compared a Radeon 8500, which is ATI's high end product, to a Geforce 3 TI200, which is nVIDIA's low end product. |
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Mon May 27, 2002 4:40 pm |
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XannyD
Village Dweller
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 23
Location: Bat Country |
I have an All-In-Wonder 8500DV.
With 6043 drivers: 3DMark2001Pro score: 7139
With 6071 drivers: 3DMark2001Pro score 7394
This card is slower than the other 8500s, but the new drivers really made a difference. That is a pretty good score jump, aye?
I have likes and dislikes about nVidia and ATI. I also have a Ti200 in another slower machine and it kicks ass(score 5017). Oh well, strange devices these boxes with silicon hearts are.
_________________
"We can't stop here, this is bat country." Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas |
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Mon May 27, 2002 8:31 pm |
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Aramas
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 38
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
Here's an idea.....instead of being one of those "MORONS" that just reads tech reviews and takes them for granted, why don't you compare the cards in YOUR OWN SYSTEM and see the difference.
I have, moron. But unlike some others in this thread I actually posted a link to a credible source. To plug in a card and wail "waaah, it doesn't work so ATI sucks" is moronic. They post on this board so they have access to the internet, so why not take a few minutes to do a search and find out what they did wrong? In my own experience, a 8500 with 2x 'quality' AA and 16x AF provides far superior image quality to anything NVidia has to offer. The 8500 with the current drivers is also faster than the GF3 Ti500, which still costs more than the 8500. To compare the 8500 with the newer, faster GF4 that costs twice as much is not particularly relevent.
For anyone that's having trouble getting AA to work on a 8500, go to advanced properties, then the Direct3D tab, Smoothvision. Then select 2x 'Quality' and choose 'always on' for AA. The default is 'application preference', and games won't use it. It took me several seconds to work that out, but it would seem to be too hard for some. While you're there select 16x AF, but don't try that on a GF3/4 unless you want it to chug.
NVidia's newest cards are undoubtedly the fastest, but have a long way to go in terms of image quality, and are ridiculously overpriced. ATI's cards have a long way to go to catch up in raw speed, but still give not only the best bang for the buck, but the best image quality bar none. |
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Mon May 27, 2002 9:26 pm |
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Aramas
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 38
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
First of all....I wasn't trashing the card itself. The FSAA is not as good as a Geforce, pure and simple. I also was not implying that the Radeon is inferior to a Geforce 3. The funny thing is, I compared a Radeon 8500, which is ATI's high end product, to a Geforce 3 TI200, which is nVIDIA's low end product.
Perhaps you are 'pure and simple', mister 'Anonymous' (a Greek poet?). The AA on the 8500 is not 'inferior' to the AA on the GF3/4, merely different. The ATI uses the same sampling method as the GF1/2 which provides better texture quality than the method used on GF3/4's at the expense of a bigger performance hit. Can you post a link to a credible source that backs up your claim? Incidently, what *is* your point, and more importantly, who cares? You have absolutely no credibility at all. I can just see it on CNN "Newsflash - an anonymous poster on an internet forum claims ATI is inferior to NVidia!" Duh.
You, however, are certainly inferior to the usual quality of posters on this board. Check out this link for a direct comparison:
http://www.rpgdot.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9 |
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Mon May 27, 2002 10:39 pm |
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Llama
High Emperor
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth |
quote:
but they have some catching up to do before they can compete with Nvidia.
That's very interesting...
At E3 this year the first real presentation of Doom 3 was shown. John Carmack was interviewed and answered some questions on video card power in relation to Doom 3 (which puts every 3d game to shame including MW and it won't be out till next year). Here is a quote straight from the 3d engine God's mouth:
quote:
Based on the feature set, the Radeon 8500 should be a faster card for Doom than the GF4, because it can do the seven texture accesses that I need in a single pass, while it takes two or three passes (depending on details) on the GF4.
Also, Doom 3 was being displayed on the new R300 (Radeons new card that smokes both the G4 cards and the upcoming NV30).
quote:
ATI's chip was chosen because it offers the most advanced, high-performance graphics architecture to power the demonstration at E3 2002. DOOM III™, scheduled for release in 2003, has been highly anticipated both as an unbelievable game and as a true measure of today - and tomorrow's - graphics architectures. Also highly anticipated, ATI's next generation product, scheduled for release this fall, will cement ATI firmly as a leader in the ultra-high-end 3D and gaming graphics market.
"ATI's next generation hardware has an ideal feature set for the DOOM III™ engine, and at the moment is the fastest platform to run the game on," said John Carmack, Chief Technical Officer & co-founder of Id Software, Inc.
Granted the ATI drivers aren't the best, but for what they are the cards are leaps and bounds above what Nvidia puts out technology wise. Also, ATI seems to finally be catching on, as the latest batch of drivers showed drastic improvement over the previous ones, and their new drivers for the R300 are obviously so advanced that even in their BETA state they can run Doom 3 with incredible performance.  |
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Tue May 28, 2002 1:45 am |
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HydroSqueegee
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 11 May 2002
Posts: 48
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quote:
First of all....I wasn't trashing the card itself. The FSAA is not as good as a Geforce, pure and simple. I also was not implying that the Radeon is inferior to a Geforce 3. The funny thing is, I compared a Radeon 8500, which is ATI's high end product, to a Geforce 3 TI200, which is nVIDIA's low end product.
Look back to the release of the 8500 last year. It was a direct competitor to the GF3. The GF4 was not the target [or even out] for the 8500 to compete with.
Performance will vary from system to system, your observations are yours alone, but dont bash a card in an isolated incident on one machine.
Please quit you bitching about something you seem so ill informed of. Research is your friend.
now lets all shut up about this because it has no revelence at all twords anyting in this forum [at this degraded point] and accept we will never change eachothers views. |
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Tue May 28, 2002 2:52 am |
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Guest
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How long did it take you to type that last one up? Instead of continuing on like a bunch of f@#%ing 3 year olds, I have an idea. Why don't we look up the market share of cards sold? Percentage of retail cards sold by nVIDIA vs ATI. The numbers speak for themselves.
...........nuff said:)
I guess I already know what you're going to say. nVidia's numbers are so good only because of the hype and advertising right? Wrong. |
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Tue May 28, 2002 3:03 am |
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Llama
High Emperor
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth |
quote:
How long did it take you to type that last one up?
Less than 2 minutes, due to that wonderful function called copy/paste.
But please do, continue looking at numbers, and I'll listen to the top developers when they say card A does such and such better than card B. |
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Tue May 28, 2002 4:32 am |
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p0rnflake
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 32
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This clip was posted before the release of the VERY popular Radeon 8500
quote:
in the world of graphics cards, things are beginning to heat up! Recently ATI announced the release of its newest innovations, the Radeon 8500 and 7500, in an effort to combat its archrival, Nvidia (for more on this story click here to check out an article on our sister Web site, VCRonet). These two new graphic chips could help boost ATI's market share above the current 27%, and put some damage into Nvidia's dominant 53% market share. ATI has already been gaining ground on Nvidia recently, with its market share up 6% in the second quarter, while Nvidia's has fallen by 13%.
Now everybody knows that ATI has been killing Nvidia since then - ATI ownz the laptop market and closing in on Nvidia on the desptop market.
ATI's market share (graphical accelerator market) in 2001 was 42% - it will be even greater in 2002 ! |
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Tue May 28, 2002 11:37 am |
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Guest
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RETAIL GRAPHIC CARDS does not include OEM and laptops! I'm talking about high end graphics cards for gamers in which nVIDIA blows ATI out of the water. |
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Tue May 28, 2002 1:48 pm |
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