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joyp
Guest
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IMO, mmo"rpgs" aren't real rpgs, thyre just chat rooms with monsters and GARBAGE.
Let's face it, All mmorpgs are similar, they are all Moronic level treadmills that have no soul, no uniqueness, no interesting gameworld and characters...... NO NOTHING!
I'd say that 60 - 90% of the current mmorpgs that are currently in development will go bankrupy in 5 years. Doesn't that tell you how utterly stupid mmorpgs are? |
Thu May 08, 2003 12:52 am |
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Raldor
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 27 Sep 2001
Posts: 107
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I agree with alot of whats been said about mmorpgs but some of it has been a little harsh imo. I think Everquest does have an interesting game world and I met plenty of interesting characters playing it (other people). We even did some roleplaying and I'm not even a big roleplayer. I don't just mean calling people "m'lady" either but guild events etc. It can be done if people actually want to roleplay.
I personally have nothing against online games and I think they can already be lots of fun, not to mention what they might become in a few years. I do agree that lots of them are coming out with no real focus but only to cash in and that irritates me to no end, but there are bad games in any genre.
About Ultima X...this is extremely strange news to me. The mere idea that there will be an Ultima Online 2 called Ultima X or 10 is strange enough, but what really gets me is the Unreal engine part. Like others have said, that just does not sound right at all for a mmorpg. Maybe we can look forward to something more like Legends of M&M than Everquest...scary.
As far as whether I'd rather see the next Ultima be single player or online, I'd have to see both the games to decide that. Either one could be great, or more likely either one could be completely horrible. |
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Thu May 08, 2003 3:10 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by Llama
Have you looked at top sales charts? The massive online games are the ones selling like crazy. BF1942 is still the #1 PC game. Regarding EQ, how many games can you say 400,000 people still play on a daily basis, with as much passion as they did when they first opened the box?
I don't understand the BF1942 point. Are you counting BF1942 as a MMOG?
As for EQ, while there is around 400,000 subscribers that doesn't mean they play every day. They're passionate? Fair enough.
quote:
Originally posted by LLama
There are way more then 2 million online gamers. Currently, MMOG generates $500,000,000 a year, worldwide. By 2005/2006 that number is estimated to be at 2.7 billion dollars. At $10 a pop that's a ballpark figure of 50,000,000 online gamers...PAYING TO PLAY right now.
Hard figures are difficult to come by and that number was a guess - probably too small I accept but I doubt it's too far wrong. UO, EQ, AC and DAoC are almost certainly under 1.5M current subscribers and most of the others are relatively small. Even if you include the massive Korean Lineage market that adds 2.5M players - try getting to 50M unless you're counting non-subscription games like Diablo or BF1942 which are not MMOG's.
I have nothing against MMO games and I plan to investigate some of the new-generation products like Horizons. I also agree the successful ones are very profitable. However, I can't see an argument for MMO games dominating the games market. I believe most new MMO entrants will steal players from other existing online games rather than attracting many new players from the ranks of offline gamers. This may well be different in 5 years but for the current crop of games in development I think there will be a lot of failures/poor results and a fewsuccessful new entrants like SWG. |
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Thu May 08, 2003 10:06 am |
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Guest
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[quote="Llama"]
quote:
Yeah, now that we can finally taste a real RPG, people don't like them. Afterall, the very concept of roleplaying is the ability to play the role of someone. In single player games, you are hindered by scripted encounters and NPC's controlled by predictable, boring AI. In a MMORPG you have interaction with people that you can't predict, no silly dialog trees to fumble through and no linear quest set forth infront of you, while the protagonist gets insanely powerful.
So in the classic Pen&Paper RPG you sit around with thousands of other players and play a role in a game without a story?
Seems that I was wrong for 20 years when I played Pen&Paper RPGs this way...
Pen&Paper RPGS are the REAL RPGs, as every RPG came from them. They are the origin of Computer-RPGs.
And in a Pen&Paper RPG you play the role of a hero in world filled with NPCs and story developed by a Gamemaster.
Single Player RPGS capture this spirit as there are NPCs and a story. If you can play the story together with a few friends like in NWN then it is even better.
The REAL RPGs are played together just by a few people who are about to become the greatest heroes of the world in game filled with NPCs, interesting quests and a story. REAL RPGs are not played with thousands of other players and without a story. |
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Thu May 08, 2003 12:41 pm |
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Loremaster
Village Leader
Joined: 31 Mar 2002
Posts: 88
Location: Hampshire, England |
quote:
Originally posted by joyp
IMO, mmo"rpgs" aren't real rpgs, they're just chat rooms with monsters and GARBAGE.
Let's face it, All mmorpgs are similar, they are all Moronic level treadmills that have no soul, no uniqueness, no interesting gameworld and characters...... NO NOTHING!
Nonsense, total nonsense. How many have you played, and for how long?
So they may not be to your taste, that doesn't merit the description you give them. Let me give you an example of why I think you're wrong...
A friend and I were standing in a village in DAoC, he was playing a crotchety dwarf and I was playing a long-suffering norseman. He moaned and groaned at me a bit when suddenly from nowhere another player who was also a norseman said "You should watch your tongue dwarf, when addressing a norseman". Now that's not just role-playing, it's a classic example of an interractive RPG that you can only find online because the exchange that took place (and developed, I can tell you!) wasn't scripted, nor could it be. |
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Thu May 08, 2003 1:08 pm |
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Llama
High Emperor
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth |
quote:
I don't understand the BF1942 point. Are you counting BF1942 as a MMOG?
Yes, for the very reason it has no single player plotline. It was marketed from the first day as a multiplayer team game. Which is why the expansion "The Road to Rome" was a multiplayer expansion, adding more maps, vehicles and fighting forces.
The point was to further explain my original statement that online games dominate the market.
quote:
However, I can't see an argument for MMO games dominating the games market.
Well it's in the profits. If it wasn't so dominate, every company and their brother wouldn't be working on a new one. One thing I can tell you is the industry as a whole only grew 10% last year, but they're expecting a 540% increase in MMOG over the next year and a half... Sorry, but that's just HUGE.
quote:
but for the current crop of games in development I think there will be a lot of failures/poor results and a few successful new entrants like SWG.
I read an article some time ago that stated a MMOG only needs ~200k subscribers to turn a huge profit. They usually get that fairly easy, but in the single player market, mass amounts of games get shuffled away due to their lack of inovation. Some companies are geeked if they push 50,000 units. Other, majorly marketed games that have substancial funds for advertisments, or a large market from the movie industry will turn and sell in the millions, but again, still don't generate the profit/interest that online games do...
quote:
I have nothing against MMO games and I plan to investigate some of the new-generation products like Horizons.
Me too, but in WoW.
quote:
Good thing I learned about your character, I didn't know that you like to get on people's nerves. Perhaps you just want to draw yourself attention.
I'm glad some simpleton was able to explain to you the rough details of my existance. Hopefully, at some point you can return to your peaceful life and put this horrible experience behind you.
quote:
So in the classic Pen&Paper RPG you sit around with thousands of other players and play a role in a game without a story?
MMORPG's have story. You also don't adventure with "thousands" of people, you go around with a party, like you would in a normal sit down situation and adventure as a group. I'm wondering if you've ever played a MMORPG...
_________________
tired of people's shit |
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Thu May 08, 2003 9:40 pm |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
@Llama :
Did your mommy wake you up too early? You need to cool down man, just take a deep breath and count to 10... well you might want to make that 100. I dont think BF1942 should be considered a MMOG. In my skewed view of the world to qualify for a MMOG you need to have at least thousands of players on one server.
_________________
If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
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Fri May 09, 2003 3:36 pm |
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Scoundrel
Head Merchant
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 60
Location: Istanbul, Turkey |
Llama, I can not return to a place where I already am. I never abandoned my peaceful state. You are the one that has to make a "return" , namely back to earth. You claim your location is earth, but I see it's not.
Don't forget that you are a mere human being like every other person. You are not above (or below) anything.
I don't need to know anything about your "rough details of existence", because your existence is very limited, the details don't matter to me.
As of the "horrible experience" matter, I have seen and dealt with much worse "cases" than you.
If you spoke to some people face to face the way you spoke (written) to me, you would have signed a death pact or let's say a good beating pact, because many people can't stand that kind of behavior. But I don't think you would have the, lets say "courage", to speak so "roughly" into someone's face.
I hope one day you make "peace" with yourself and with others around... |
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Fri May 09, 2003 7:47 pm |
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Raldor
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 27 Sep 2001
Posts: 107
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Wow I don't quite understand what the big deal is over Llama. Is it still because of his sig that was mistaken as being specifically for this thread? I thought he was carrying on a pretty reasonable debate defending mmorpgs in a thread that was (at that point) mostly anti-mmorpg.
I do have to agree that bf1942 would not be considered massively multiplayer. I don't know what numbers you need by definition but I'd say probably in the hundreds and a persistant world with stored characters helps too. Lots of newer shooters allow up to 64 per server and I don't think bf1942 goes beyond that. It is definitely an online game though so no argument there. |
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Fri May 09, 2003 8:18 pm |
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Scott
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Posts: 31
Location: Colorado |
Personally, I think all these MMORPG's are great! First, companies will have to design and produce better games than what's been released so far, because so many games will be competing for your money. Second, competition causes price cuts. When they're all fighting over your business, prices start to get slashed to get you to give them a try.
Bugs will be fewer, problems will happen less often, the releases will be smoother, and you'll see an MMORPG actually FINISHED when it hits the store shelf. All thanks to Massively Multiplayer Competition for your time, money and attention 
Show the first 2 companies to the Arena please!
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The arrows flew at us so thick as to blot out the sun, so I says to young Angus, "Well, at least now we'll be fighting in the shade." |
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Fri May 09, 2003 10:46 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
@Scott, I certainly agree that competition is a generally a good thing for the consumer so MMO fans have a lot to look forward to.
By Llama's figures there should be a 6-fold increase in MMO subscriptions by 2006 (from ~$500M to ~$3B). There are apparently 200 MMO games currently in development. Assuming most of these games aim to be completed in 3-4 year development cycle most of these games should be aiming to be online in 2005/6. The increase in the number of games available will far outstrip the increase in players based on that information and I think I can assume there will be a lot of failures.
So while there may be talk about MMO games dominating new developments now, in a couple of years devs will be saying the MMO market is too crowded and thinking it's too hard (and expensive) to tackle the big entrenched products like SWG or whatever wins the upcoming wars. Then the market will stabilise: MMO games will certainly be an important part of the gaming landscape but you'll only see a handful of new entrants each year. |
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Sat May 10, 2003 12:45 am |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
quote:
Originally posted by Raldor
Wow I don't quite understand what the big deal is over Llama.
I agree that he did have some good points on his arguments but he started acting very childish and rude, espiecally to Scoundrel. If he can't debate without making rude personal attacks maybe he should go find another forum at ezboards 
I admit that I did go a little far with my last post, but I was just giving him a little bit of his own medicine...
_________________
If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
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Sat May 10, 2003 4:15 am |
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Scoundrel
Head Merchant
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 60
Location: Istanbul, Turkey |
Thanks for backing me up Korplem...
I also told Llama that I agreed on some of his ideas about MMORPGs.
I don't know why he went agressive especially on my thoughts.
I told him this forum was NOT about saying MMORPGs are bad.
It was all about the rumor of Ultima-X planned to be made as a MMORPG with Unreal Engine by EA.
Some people just didn't want to see Ultima series as MMORPGs, they wanted them the way they were originally made in the past and I want it that way too.
So my point was, he didn't have to defend MMORPGs in general, at least not in this forum...
But he said I didn't made a point, attacking me for no apparent reason.
I believe we can still make peace, after all we aren't in primary school anymore... I am just waiting for a response from him.......... |
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Sat May 10, 2003 6:49 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
unlike <edit> SOME of you, i understand why mmorpgs are so popular, but they are freaking stupid to make Ultima X an mmorpg. Ultima Online 2 would have been far better. It would sell better. Numbered Ultimas, that take after a traditional line of Ultima games, should be single-player games, period. If they were smart they wouldnt have cancelled Origin Online, but now they are realizing that they made a mistake in cancelling that game?  It will be survival of the best, i guess... Thats the way the business world is... I wish them all good luck. |
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Sat May 10, 2003 7:51 pm |
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Darkmoon
Guest
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I don't mind that they are doing another MMORPG in the Ultima Universe, but they shouldn't call it Ultima X.
A roman numeral stands for the single player games, as every single player Ultima had a roman numeral.
If they want to do another MMORPG, they should call it Ultima Online 2 or something like this but NOT Ultima X! |
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Sat May 10, 2003 9:12 pm |
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