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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
| Poll Results and New Poll |
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Hmmm...what to make of our last poll? We asked which of four high-profile releases you were most interested in - naturally we understood the makeup of our readership would affect the result (our large Gothic community, for example). What we didn't expect was an organised attempt to skew the results from certain Gothic and Witcher communities. We can easily track the traffic from the relevant links but we can't know how many of those incoming voters might have otherwise visited RPGDot and voted normally.
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<br>So, the actual result was Gothic 3 with 33%, The Witcher with 27.6%, Oblivion with 25.2% and NWN2 with 13%. Interestingly, only 1.3% voted "None of the above", suggesting the upcoming year holds something for most of our readers.
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<br>While we haven't attempted to calculate the results without the "extra" votes, I suspect the result would have been Oblivion, Gothic 3, NWN2 and The Witcher in order.
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<br>In previous polls we've established the story is a very important element to our readers. This time, we want to know if you'd rather story over freedom. There's no perfect example, but think Star Wars: KotOR (or most BioWare RPGs) versus a (modern) Ultima VII. Hit the poll on the left. |
Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:36 am |
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fatBastard()
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 40
Location: Denmark |
In my opinion this really comes down to what you're looking for: An "Experience" or a "Game".
The "Experience" is like everything else in life: It may continue to be interesting/exciting (it might even get better with practice) after several repeats but the first time is always special, be it the first kiss, the first roll in the hay, the first time you jump out of an airplane at 3000 feet or the first time you watch a movie like "The Sixth Sense". The "wonderment", if you will, of the first time can never be relived but if it is good enough it will never be forgotten either.
The "Game" is like a soccer match or poker or "Counter Strike"/MMORPGs or Tetris. Match/hand/round/raid number 100 is basically the same as number 2 or number 1000 for that matter: The only thing that matter is the actual gameplay, everything else is more or less irrelevant. When the cards are shuffled and passed on to the next dealer you know you're back to the square one and everything you've done so far, be it good or bad, counts for nothing when the next hand is being dealt.
Even though I haven't played the LucasArts game "The Dig" in more than 3 years now, I can practically talk you through the game, scene for scene, from start to finish, that's how great the experience of that game was for me. I've only played through "PlaneScape:Torment" a single time back when it came out in 1999 and I promised myself not to play it again until at least some of the details began to blur in my minds eye ... that hasn't happened yet.
On the other hand, when I first finished playing through "Prince of Persia: Sands of Time" I immediately started a new game and played through it again and when I was done with that I started over once more. Before I knew it I was on my fifth time through the game and even though the "experience" factor indeed was high (for me at least), it was all the fun I had with the swinging on poles, running on walls and whacking of sand monsters that made me go through it again and again.
Now I can already hear some of you grumbling in the background: "What the heck has poker or PoP:SoT got to do with freedom" . Well, the thing is: When you stray from the narrow path of linear/story driven gameplay, then you've got to make sure that the core gameplay elements of your game is solid enough for people to enjoy whether they have done so for half an hour or for 30 hours. This is why I don't understand how the GTA franchise could have become so popular as it has because the whole backbone of the game is the driving around in stolen cars and the actual driving part of the game is virtually horrendous (in my opinion of course) compared to even much older racing games.
What do you mean: "Get to the point"? Oh all right.
I like freedom. Really, I do ... but as an addition to a great story, not as a replacement. If I want to merely kill some time I put on Counter Strike or Solitaire or some other pretty straight forward games, but for my, all too few, RPG's I want the "Experience". I want to have another almost trouser wetting revelation like when you discovered some part of your past in PS:Torment or who you really are in KoTOR and I want to be able to say: "Nooo! You killed my dog, you mutant scum. DIE!!!" with a genuine righteous anger instead of the slightly frustrated: "Ah nuts, you whacked my archer. Now I need to find a new one". Okay now I'm getting caried away  , but the fact of the matter is that I'll take the "Experience" over the "Game" any day of the week.
Rant over ... Ahhhh, that felt good. Hope I didn't bore you too much 
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Signature? ... erm ... nope, can't think of one. |
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:25 pm |
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Guest
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Where's my "something in between" option
Generally happy about the freedom (real or not) you have in BioWare RPGs, though I whould sometimes wish there was more of it. |
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:36 pm |
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txa1265
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Marlborough, MA USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
Where's my "something in between" option
Generally happy about the freedom (real or not) you have in BioWare RPGs, though I whould sometimes wish there was more of it.
That would get 99% of the vote and make the poll meaningless. You should know the answer - like it or not - from the manner in which you play games.
Personally, while I like to think I like open exploration, and do to an extent, I know I prefer a strong storyline tied to a sense of purpose in a game.
Mike
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Dopelar effect (n.) The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
Check out my blog. |
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:25 pm |
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Oneiromancer
Village Dweller
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 4
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This is a really tough one for me too. I like both types of RPGs if they done well. And generally they don't mix within the same game.
However, just based on the games I have the best memories of over the years (Ultima, Elder Scrolls), I'll have to go with freedom.
Game on,
The Oneiromancer |
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:39 pm |
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evil_lemming
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 38
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I enjoy freedom but its a story that will make finish a game so +1 to story |
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:39 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
what about when story overides the prupose of the game: roleplaying? How can you roleplay a character that is invented by devs, is scripted by devs, and your only opertunity to roleplay is getting him/her from a to b to set off the next scripted event?
Shouldn't roleplaying games strive only to give you a roleplaying experience? To have that experience shouldn't you be able to roleplay? Or have to be able to roleplay to play an rpg?
If the poll was about games in general I could see where the question comes from, but its about rpgs. So that makes it a non-question I think. Its basically asking if you like your filth to be dirty or clean? Or do you like the sun to be made of gas or solid metal?
Can linear games be real rpgs? Or are the just games with some rpg elements?
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:04 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I broadly agree with your point, Roqua, but as usual I don't think it's as black & white. I voted "freedom", by the way. Clearly, the poll is fairly artificial - I have very limited room to phrase the questions and responses and the obvious choice would be "both", so I'm trying to ascertain if -- forced to choose -- readers go one way or the other.
And the results speak for themselves. The simple fact is that not everyone plays RPGs for the same reasons - some enjoy the "epic" fantasy stories, some like leveling and loot, some powergaming, some the strategic combat...and some take the "roleplay" very seriously. It's a sliding scale and for some, a better story provides a bigger payback than a "virtual world".
Going further, no cRPG is ever entirely non-linear. Every RPG has a framework that limits the choice of role and the responsiveness of the gameworld. So, you have an arbitrary personal line that you have chosen to suit your tastes that says a game must have X branching points and Y number of decisions with consequences to qualify as an RPG -- and I understand that. Not everyone will draw the same line.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:01 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
I don't know that I want to be driven like cattle, but I find open-ended games like Morrowind to lack focus. In order to allow the player to truly do anything, they can't reward the player for doing anything. When the changes to your character can be identical whether you save the world or kill a whole boatload of rats in the swamp, something ain't right IMO. It's much easier for a game to reward accomplishment when there's a story structure to follow.
@Roqua- while your definition is probably technically correct, your RPG would really boil down to a sandbox. True roleplaying requires a complete lack of structure to work for more than one person. First, that's not really possible to program right now. Second, that's more virtual reality than a role playing game.
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=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
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Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:04 am |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
The sad thing is I kind of like linear games, or at least finish them more often than non-linear games.
I finished arx fatalis, a game that got rid of the useless and superficial dialogue choices. And that had very little in way of any choices what so ever. And I enjoyed it (besides the stupid gay lava jumping puzzle).
But now look at Darklands, ROA series, and FO2. In all those games you have great freedom of when and how you do things. Actions have great repercussions. And 2 times through can be totally different games. Draklands is the only one that was like a sandbox, with little direction. Both ROA series and FO2 show you can have a non-linear game and a great story driven game. And that computer games can be rpgs.
I think it boils down to choice. Can I do what I want or do I have to do what the devs scripted? Can I play a role that I created or do I act out a pre-generated character’s story?
This isn’t saying that I have good taste in games, as I like Lionheart better than Diablo. I like Dungeon Lords better than Morrowind. And I like ToEE better than NWN. I’m not talking about what makes a good rpg or a good game, but what makes an rpg. What makes an rpg different than other games? In the end I think the title defines it the best, role-playing game.
Granted, people like rpgs for many reasons. Or one aspect of a game commonly found in rpgs. Maybe I just like things making sense in my own head, but I just can’t get past things blatantly not being labeled right. The term rpg really just means stat-game now. And even stats aren’t that important anymore. It just doesn’t add up.
Sorry, wife rushing me
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:04 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
If forced to choose, then I'd have to go with story.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:20 am |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by txa1265
That would get 99% of the vote and make the poll meaningless. You should know the answer - like it or not - from the manner in which you play games.
Yes, I figure most whould've selected that option. Was just joking
Also, even though I voted Story, doesn't mean I want the game lacking Freedom. It can easily be too little of it. Also, although I prefer it heavy on the Story, doesn't mean I'm a fan of premade player character. Some back story is OK, but I don't like it if I feel I have no chance of shaping that character. Whether he's a nobody, or the child of a god, or immortal, or whatever doesn't matter, as long as no one "puts word in my mouth". (Not talking about selectable Dialogue lines v.s. Morrowind-wiki style, or whatever else, here, btw). |
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:21 am |
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
If forced to choose, then I'd have to go with story.
Same for me. Of course that would turn Gothic into a Severance without its fighting system, but at least you have something that determines the actions of the player and the world.
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Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:42 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
quote:
Originally posted by Sem
but at least you have something that determines the actions of the player and the world.
What about the motivations of the character you created? Unless people have lost all their imagination and absolutley need predeveloped characters with preset backstories and a future set in stone, roleplaying is still a viable alternative
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:06 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
The problem is the poll is hypothetical and without specific references, everyone has to make assumptions.
Roleplaying your "own" character is fine if the game provides enough choices and is sufficiently reactive. I think people are choosing "story" because they know so few (any?) games are really reactive enough to allow player's real roleplay freedom, so the story is necessary to provide context and motivation.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:22 am |
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