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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
quote:
Originally posted by Guest
Do you want some cheese with your whine?
Hmm, stop that, no place for flaming here. |
Thu May 09, 2002 1:22 pm |
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Meck
Guest
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I agree that the combat does get kinda boring... but to put things into perspective, if u wish for your combat to be more interesting... then choose a more creative way of combat rather then just rushing in a hacking up the nasties. You could sneak up, fire a few volleys of arrows to soften em up then rush in and stab them silly by conjuring a bound dagger.
I'm playing a character now who mainly specialises in conjuration magic... so i summon a monster to soften up my enemy... before rushing in with fists to knock them down... then slowly punch them to death while they slip thru and fro consciousness... or, if i'm feeling lazy, conjure the bound dagger and stab them while they are down.
I mean... the game provides u with the engine, u provide the imagination! |
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Thu May 09, 2002 5:31 pm |
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Viya
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 May 2002
Posts: 5
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I am the original poster for this threat. My apologies for posting as a guest. A little mistake with registering. In response to those who replied to my original post:
>> the only thing I would add is the crappy combat. <<
I played Everquest a while back. Compared to EQ, the combat doesn't really bother me. However, I do wish that my character had a bit more mobility. Perhaps this will come in time, but at Level-4 it is too early to tell.
>> ...if you think that AO graphics are even in the same league as Morrowind, then something is definitely wrong with your (pick one: glasses, perception, computer, monitor, configuration).<<
One thing that people seem to always forget about in terms of graphics is the scaling and versatility of the graphics engine. Morrowind does not have it. Anarchy's graphics might not be as DETAILED as Morrowind's, but the color pallet is 10 times better, the character models are superior (especially the elbow and knee joints) and there is no fog (I repeat) NO FOG to keep frame rates acceptable. All the hype about the water was just that....hype. Why? Because while the water looks super realistic, but they have placed it on top of or beside unrealistic ground textures. Hence, due to the uneven and unnatural look, it ruins the whole effect (at least for me). I turned mine off and believe it or not, I find it more satifying (along with an increase in frame rates) Again...as I stated above, if Morrowind had more graphics options in terms of the level of DETAIL, I would not have as much of a problem. Unfortunately....it doesn't.
>> The interface could have been better. Unfortunately, Bethesda decided to make the pc version very similar to the xbox version with limited control options. I'm sure that in a perfect world, they would have done it differently. Well, it's not a perfect world in case you hadn't noticed.
The game runs, it is fairly bug free in comparison to other games of this genre. I feel that I've gotten my money's worth and look forward to the next eldar scrolls game from Bethesda. <<
You got it mixed up. The PC version has been in development for YEARS. Morrowind is ported to the XBox, not the other way around. Regardless, is that really any excuse for the lack of options?
>> Dungeon Siege with it's "so simple it almost plays for you interface" only has 2x spell slots, so a mage only ever bothers with 2x spells. <<
While Dungeon Siege is simplified, it is still more effective than Morrowind's because the items are large enough to visually identify. The same cannot be said for Morrowind. Trying to buy armor is the worst. Yes, there are only 2x spell slots in Dungeon Siege, but Morrowind forces you to switch to "Magic Ready" and then scroll through or select the spell. Gotta use the lockpick? You have to unready your weapon, go into your inventory, find the lockpick in all the unorganized junk you have, drag it to your character model on the left, close the inventory, and then ready the lockpick as you would a weapon. It was so unintuitive, it probably took me 20 mins to figure it out at the beginning of the game.
Another thing that annoys me is that if a weapon is in your inventory, you are forced to select it even if you don't want to. If I have 5 swords, I don't want to scroll through all those swords just to get to the one I want. Yes...the quick keys solve the problem, but it is still an example of the unintuitive nature of the inventory system. I should be able to select which weapons I want to scroll between and I can't.
>> Morrowind was developed basically to fill the needs of both a console game platform (limited control options) and a PC platform (extensive control options). It is my understanding that the majority of the code is the same for both platforms, which means that they have to cater to the least common denominator. The interface in Morrowind is a direct reflection of this. <<
While this may be true, I personally don't think that it should have had an impact on the user interface. Take a look at the multitude of games that have come out that have acceptable UI on consoles. Hell, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance had a perfectly good interface that worked nicely. Final Fantasy X was just as nice. Bottom line is that we are playing on TV screen. The approach to User Interface should be taken that the end user can't pick up the sword and observe it. Non-rollover text and larger pictures are necessary. Sub-category tabs like Swords, Maces, Light Armor, Potions are a necessity. Come on...how hard would that have been?
>> Just play around with diff drivers, and get a good tweaking program and your performance troubles can easily be fixed. It just takes a little effort on the user's part compared to "mainstream" engines like quake 3 and such. <<
With all due respect, I really didn't purchase Morrowind so that I could spend time tweaking my computer just to run that one program. I expect a product to work "out of the box"...and this one doesn't. The sad part is that Bethesda has been disturbingly silent about the games issues. I would expect acknowledgment of the issue and more communication to their fans about possible fixes.
>>combat is more than horrible...it's not fun anymore to walk over to a creature and attack it, you never know if you hit it and doesn;t make sense <<
and
>> Yes the combat totally sucks. You just sit there and WACK - WACK over and over and wonder, when it /he /she is going to drop. <<
Again, I played EQ so the combat doesn't bother me as much. However, I would at least like some visual signs that I am doing damage besides a brief "puff" of red to signify a hit. That is the reason why "damage bars" were designed in games in the first place. What I would love even MORE was some sort of "observe" function where I can tell my character to give me an assessment of the lethality of the target. I can't tell who is lethal and who is not. Example: I rolled up into this one building in the wilderness and saw some dude in the distance. Not knowing if he was hostile or not, I went to say hello. I didn't get the chance to even get close before he started handing out beatdown tickets. I didn't even get the chance to turn around. People talk about how they like this because it is realistic, but the wry irony is that reloading your game to try again is the ultimate of unrealistic. Bethesda should have included multiple options for the casual gamer and the ultra-realism junkie. I am somewhere in between, but my time is limited. |
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Thu May 09, 2002 6:07 pm |
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Mephisto
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 05 May 2002
Posts: 300
Location: Holland |
"With all due respect, I really didn't purchase Morrowind so that I could spend time tweaking my computer just to run that one program. I expect a product to work "out of the box"...and this one doesn't. The sad part is that Bethesda has been disturbingly silent about the games issues. I would expect acknowledgment of the issue and more communication to their fans about possible fixes. "
You cant expect a game to sport all details while not tweaking your pc. no tweaking=weaker performence=less detail.
I can argue with you about the rest, but it are merely opinions. I hope you still find the game worth your money. |
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Thu May 09, 2002 6:18 pm |
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Llama
High Emperor
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth |
The game runs perfectly fine on my recommended rig...
Athlon 800, 512 RAM (not even DDR) and a Radeon 8500LE
Ebonheart is the worst city I've been to in regards to framerates, but the longer I'm there the smoother it appears...
It's a next-gen game, just like Ultima 9 was for its time. |
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Thu May 09, 2002 6:26 pm |
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Guest
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"It's a next-gen game, just like Ultima 9 was for its time."
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!! WRONG! Thanks for playing!
Ultima 9, which I greatly looked forward to is STILL a turd.
Every time I upgrade to a new machine I reload Ultima 9 in the hopes of playing it smoothly. I'm up to an Athlon 1800XP / 512RAM /GForce 3ti500 and Ascension STILL sucks.
If you recall, this game was written specifically for 3DFX GLIDE and had DirectX support added at a later date. Not very forward thinking if you ask me. The result is that the game still runs better on an Athlon 750 / Voodoo 3000 than on an Athlon 1800 / GForce 3ti 500!
Getting back to Morrowind, yes I believe this game will improve in speed as machines get faster and thus could be considered next-gen.
Regards,
Sindau |
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Fri May 10, 2002 6:53 pm |
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Guest
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[quote="Anonymous
Ultima 9, which I greatly looked forward to is STILL a turd.
Every time I upgrade to a new machine I reload Ultima 9 in the hopes of playing it smoothly. I'm up to an Athlon 1800XP / 512RAM /GForce 3ti500 and Ascension STILL sucks. [/quote]
I took the route that I refused to play Ultima 9 because of the horrific frame rate. U9 was a total disappointment. The good news is that there are a number of Ultima recreation project using the Dungeon Seige engine. I do know that U7-the black gate/serpent isle (my favorite) and U9 are both being redone...so hopefully I will be able to play U9 one day.
Kinda sad that somebody else's engine and a group of guys in a garage are poised to succeed where Lord British couldn't. |
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Sat May 11, 2002 1:37 am |
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GroundzerO
Guest
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| Re: Morrowind is nice...but disappointing |
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In more ridiculous is that the minimum requirements for Morrowind lists a P3 500 with 128MB RAM. That is ludicrous as there is no way that Morrowind will run acceptably on that rig, if at ALL the game has promise.
<<REPLY>>
I have a 550 mhz (pIII) with 310 RAM, a geforce2 (32 mb AGP) and it runs fine. If your pc can't handle it, and you have higher processor speed than me, then dude, get a Dell...
BTW---I'm very pleased with Morrowind, and I'm waiting for the day that someone makes a multiplayer mod <hint hint>. |
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 8:18 pm |
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Dave
Village Dweller
Joined: 24 May 2002
Posts: 20
Location: York, PA. |
I have to agree with Viya on all points presented. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The inventory interface is annoying, but you do get used to it after awhile. I can recognize most alchemy ingredients (saltrice, hack-lo, etc.) without even mousing over. At least you can tell if something has magical properties as well, without mousing over. This could have been improved, but we'll have to live with it now.
Combat is dissappointing to me also. Yes, I know it's an RPG and not an FPS, but it could still be improved. You wouldn't even have to add the 'health bar' to opponents. Just provide us with some sort of visual feedback relating to the opponent's current physical condition. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I would think after you've sustained 2 or 3 good whacks from a Nordic Claymore, you're not going look exactly like you did before you were hit. Everyone following me here? The opponent could limp, bleed profusely, moan, etc. Whatever! Just some sort of indication. This is just a god@%*$ shame in my opinion. Wouldn't it be great if you could dismember or decapitate opponents? I guess that's why it's a TEEN game huh?
And finally, my last bi*&% about Morrowind. It is completely unstable PERIOD. That's great if you can run it! I'm glad someone can, and I mean that sincerely. I say that because if everyone had problems with the game, it would probably be the last in the series. That's really not what I want to happen. Morrowind is a great game, really it is. The concept of the whole thing is awesome. However, the performance is not. I'll disagree on Viya's, "It should run out-of-the-box" theory. Things may need some tweaking now and then, but not this much! I've tweaked and tested, tweaked and tested, tweaked and tested, repeat another 100 times, and I'm still not happy with the performance. Still crashes to desktop sometimes and the graphics are choppier than a chef at Benihana's. Holy crap, I'm starting to think you need a degree from MIT to get this thing to run properly! I hope, no I actually pray, that a patch from Bethesda will fix the performance issues so many of us have encountered. If not...F&#$ it! I'll play something else. Other games will come and go, some will be good, and some won't. Such is life... |
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 4:50 pm |
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AlexScherr
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 48
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Wow! So much dissatisfaction. And apparently so much more on so many different web sites. It sounds as if for Viya and so many others, Morrowind doesn't make the grade, from design to execution. What a relief for them and all REAL gamers that Morrowind will quickly die out, given its poor quality and poor gameplay.
As a part-time, uncommitted gamer, I have a separate experience, of a different game, also (oddly enough) called Morrowind, which runs smoothly on my machine, has given me many hours of pleasure in the month or so that I've had it, and which I've found to be unique in my gaming experience. Its graphics have left me occasionally breathless, the freedom it allows intriguing, and the storytelling has moved my cuiriosity and steady interest. It's too bad I can't get Viya and others a copy of this game, or help them to my experience of the game . . . just as it's too bad I can't share his and their experience of their Morrowind, so that I could properly assess the accuracy of their views.
I hope that Bethesda will listen to them about their Morrowind and give them everything that they're asking for, since their design and execution insight has been so hard earned. Until that happens, I'll play my version with continuing pleasure. I also hope that they bought their game from a store that permits unquestioned refunds, so that they can get rid of it if they choose.
I'd encourage them to choose to do that, since so many of their complaints go to fundamental design choices by Bethesda, that a patch seems unlikely to change, and that other people have found a way to live with, and even enjoy. As to their apparently authoritative descriptions of the game's technical difficulties, maybe Bethesda can do something about those problems . . . although I haven't seen any reason in my version of Morrowind for them to make the change.
One thing's for sure: it isn't any more heartless of me to point out that Morrowind does work for many (most?) people who post here than it is for them to point out that for them, the experience of Morrowind just plain sucks, or at least fails to match their expectations. If the feedback improves the game, all the better. I certainly hope it does change for you all; and if it doesn't, I hope that you can return the game and use your money somewhere else. |
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 6:40 pm |
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Eyetooth
Guest
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I waited for Morrowind for a long time. It runs poorly on my system but I like it just the same and will keep it the same way I kept Daggerfall and continue to play it. To give voice to the negative sides of a game is a simple attempt to voice one's opinion with the idea that if enough people bring up a specific issue or set of issues, these may then be addressed in future products or in patches if available. I like the game but to claim criticism is whining is inappropriate, as no improvements can be obtained without input from consumers. Now as far as out of the box issues are concerned, I have many crpgs and haven't had to tweak the machine once until Morrowind. If you bought a car and it didn't work when you picked it up, or the wipers or lights didn't work and someone told you "well what did you expect? A car is an expensive complicated piece of machinery. You need to tweak it abit to get it to run, and if you complain about it you're whining." Or say something simpler, a video tape purchase or whatever. If an item is promoted by the creator as a bug free item and then elicits a huge response in terms of performance issues [not content], then it needed further development and testing. I'm sure many people bought Firestone tires and had no problem with them either, it doesn't mean that the essential design or final product wasn't in some way flawed and Firestone [as many companies do when confronted with flawed product] issued a recall. Software however is frequently difficult to return for what you spent on it , if you can return it. As I said , I have probs, but I'll keep the game. Other's views should be respected though. |
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:32 pm |
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tansa75
Village Dweller
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 2
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liking a game or not with all the flaws is imho a matter of personal preference. some like apple, others like oranges. so everyone is entitled to their own opinion/preference. what matters is how do we want to enjoy something that we hv bought. if u feel it's defective or that the devs didn't polish up the game b4 release then by all means do whatever u feel is right. either return it or continue playing it. 
when Gothic was released, many gamers complained about the weird/unique controls and many more were put off by it. for me, i personally loved the game not becos of the controls but the immersiveness and atmosphere the game produced. it became one of my all time fav games to date. i borrowed GOthic to my friend and he didn't enjoy this kind of game. he just didn't like 3rd person perspective games! well any amount of encouragement failed to get him far enough to continue. 
moral of the story is :- even though MW may not have been up to our expectation in certain aspect (e.f. fps, combat, menu etc) it delivers in other aspects too (e.g. graphics, music, open-endedness, massive world, virtually interative environment). 4 me, i'm enjoying the game with my P3 933Mhz, 320mbSDRAM, 32mb GF2MX pc. problems? yes they r there but i'm willing to overlook all that becos i find the world of MW fascinating! 
_________________
"Mess with the best, die like the rest!" |
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Fri Jun 07, 2002 8:57 am |
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Mephisto
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 05 May 2002
Posts: 300
Location: Holland |
I play the game on a p3 450/256mb/tnt2 (1152x864, 60% view distance, 10% ai, no shadows) and having lots of fun. Its all about what YOU find acceptable. |
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Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:05 am |
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guest
Guest
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quote:
, but Morrowind forces you to switch to "Magic Ready" and then scroll through or select the spell. Gotta use the lockpick? You have to unready your weapon, go into your inventory, find the lockpick in all the unorganized junk you have, drag it to your character model on the left, close the inventory, and then ready the lockpick as you would a weapon. It was so unintuitive, it probably took me 20 mins to figure it out at the beginning of the game.
Eh? Try pressing F1 sometime. If you're a thief-type you should assign lockpicks and probes to quick keys. Simple as that. Same principle applies to other useful items. You do have 9 slots and you don't need to use one on a weapon as F takes care of that.
As for the rest of this thread, cor blimey o'riley! Every game's forums, on every site that hosts such forums is now beset by multiple threads complaining about performance, etc, etc, etc.
I'm not overjoyed by the performance on my system 1G Athlon, 256 ram, G2 MX400, @ 1076x720 but I can live with it. It certainly isn't unplayable.
All of the carping and the counter-carping is a simple product of the enormous and quite unprecedented diversity in personal systems. Do you really expect developers to be able to anticipate everything? Not even extensive QA can do it.
It's a good game. It suits the thoughtful, slow player (this is another source of complaints from some) and encourages imagination.
Bugginess is now with us in evry game and probably will stay with us forever (or until we get uber-development tools and we're talking light years ahead of what we have now).
Live with it,
Thats RL,
Jasp |
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Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:42 am |
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Dave
Village Dweller
Joined: 24 May 2002
Posts: 20
Location: York, PA. |
Maybe I just had to vent a little in my last post. I really do love the game. I play it every night, regardless of the performance problems. I've just never had play around with tweaks so much for any PC game. I'm not doing reckless tweaks either. I don't overclock the graphics card, or change the refresh rate of the monitor, or change the AGP? aperature. I avoid those potentially dangerous kinds of tweaks. Every tweak I do make, I make sure I write down what I did and how to reverse it if necessary. I've just waited so long for this game...I just had my hopes up too high I suppose. Can't wait for the patch next week!
Another person just said this too, that he had given the game to a friend to play and his friend didn't like it at all. The same thing happened to me also. My friend was over one night and I said, "Here dude, sit down and check this out!" Thinking he would just run right out to the store and buy his own copy. I was absolutely shocked when he said it was "gay", after about 5 minutes! He had just started a new character, runs into the first house he sees after getting out of the census office, and starts whacking this dude with his dagger. The fight lasted a good 5 minutes, and he ended up losing.  I tried to explain it to him a little bit, "You know Mike, you might want to go buy some armor, or a better weapon, or a spell or two first; before you start to take on the world." No, it's just gay he says. Whatever Mike, different strokes for different folks. So let him play MMIX every night. Yeah dude, that game is way better than Morrowind....NOT! |
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Fri Jun 07, 2002 4:23 pm |
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