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Games comparing to Gothic... CRPGs, MMORPGs, anything
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RPGDot Forums > CRPGs General

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Hexy
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
   

Neverwinter nights is not an MMORPG, it's a terribly made game with some multiplayer support.

A game that compares to Gothic? Sorry, I don't know any games that are THAT bad... well... maybe something like Stone Prophet, but that's probably it. As for good games, however, I would recommend System Shock 2.

As for WoW. Yeah, I know, it's great that there's only restricted PvP. Honestly, who likes grefing and stuff like that (except for the griefers)? PvE over PvP any day (well, almost).
Post Wed May 14, 2003 10:03 am
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county
   

Youre mistaking the orignal never winter nights with the current one by bioware.

The orignal one was so far as I know the first real graphical mmorpg, at least the first one of any popularity. It was not a single player game.

It was around for five or six years at least, it had clans and thousands of subscribers. Larger than the majority of current mmrpgs. This was around 8 years ago.
Post Wed May 14, 2003 12:01 pm
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Where’s my Banana?!?!




Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green
   

quote:
Originally posted by Abbath
I just need to say that if you're going to play planetside, you need to sign up for the beta, and then they pick you out of lots of people if they think you sound good.


Thats only if you go the normal beta route. The fileplanet route already has authorized clients, so you just download and go.
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Post Wed May 14, 2003 1:45 pm
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Where’s my Banana?!?!




Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green
   

quote:
Originally posted by Hexy
As for WoW. Yeah, I know, it's great that there's only restricted PvP. Honestly, who likes grefing and stuff like that (except for the griefers)? PvE over PvP any day (well, almost).


I think you mis-understood. We said the complete opposite.

My oppinion is, if you dont want the danger of intelligent opponents, what is the point in even playing a MMORPG? Currently I get bored in a few hours, teaming up with other humans just makes it all the more easy, therefore all the more dull...

If all you want to do is fight AI opponents, go play an offline RPG. If you want to talk to people, load up MSN Messenger.

A fully PvP MMORPG is everything todays MMORPG's are but a whole lot more interesting and a whole lot more fun.

Another great reason for fully PvP, is that the world evolves its own story, with bad guys and good guys, everyone gets to know who people are, and you get wars between the good guys and bad guys. Whole towns get ransacked. Its just so much fun. Unlike todays MMORPG's which have no story whatsoever.

When was the last time anything like that happened in a current MMORPG?

Day 1: faceless NPC monster attacks
Day 2: faceless NPC monster attacks
Day 3: faceless NPC monster attacks
add nauseum.....

Give me intelligent bad guys to worry about any day.

See what I mean zIBzi?
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IMHO my opinion is humble
Post Wed May 14, 2003 1:47 pm
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Hexy
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
   

quote:
Originally posted by Chekote

I think you mis-understood. We said the complete opposite.

My oppinion is, if you dont want the danger of intelligent opponents, what is the point in even playing a MMORPG? Currently I get bored in a few hours, teaming up with other humans just makes it all the more easy, therefore all the more dull...

If all you want to do is fight AI opponents, go play an offline RPG. If you want to talk to people, load up MSN Messenger.

A fully PvP MMORPG is everything todays MMORPG's are but a whole lot more interesting and a whole lot more fun.

Another great reason for fully PvP, is that the world evolves its own story, with bad guys and good guys, everyone gets to know who people are, and you get wars between the good guys and bad guys. Whole towns get ransacked. Its just so much fun. Unlike todays MMORPG's which have no story whatsoever.

When was the last time anything like that happened in a current MMORPG?

Day 1: faceless NPC monster attacks
Day 2: faceless NPC monster attacks
Day 3: faceless NPC monster attacks
add nauseum.....

Give me intelligent bad guys to worry about any day.

See what I mean zIBzi?


Heh...

Well, what's the point in playing a PvP MMORPG? If you want to fight people load up an FPS or Diablo. You don't waste as much time with those.

Having a REQUIRED PVP isn't good, having a small ammount of it (i.e. 10% like in WoW) gives you the CHOICE of fighting others or fighting MOBs.

Oh, but PvP games like SB are MUCH better right?

Day 1: Player army 1 attacks Player army 2's town.
Day 2: Player army 2 attacks Player army 1's town.
...
Rince and repeat.

PvP is kind of not having any 'high end' content in the game. It's like the developers saying "Well, we're too lazy to make an end game, so we'll just let the players fight eachother."
Post Wed May 14, 2003 2:11 pm
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Where’s my Banana?!?!




Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green
   

quote:
Originally posted by Hexy

Heh...

Well, what's the point in playing a PvP MMORPG? If you want to fight people load up an FPS or Diablo. You don't waste as much time with those.


Because a PvP RPG is nothing like an FPS. I dont play PvP RPG's to fight people, I play PvP RPG's to play in realistic world. You are completely missing the point. Just because there is full PvP (Not REQUIRED) does not mean that is all you do.

I played UO like an RPG should be played. I went out, tried to make a living, met people, built a house, Fought creatures etc.

But the difference between that and a non-PvP MMORPG is that while I was doing all this, there was real evil people to worry about. Its a completely different world when you go out to chop some wood and have to worry about a REAL necromancer jumping out of the trees and attacking you.

quote:
Originally posted by Hexy

Having a REQUIRED PVP isn't good, having a small ammount of it (i.e. 10% like in WoW) gives you the CHOICE of fighting others or fighting MOBs.



I agree that REQUIRED PvP isnt good. But thats not what I said. Required PvP would basically turn it into deathmatch. Its not required, is UNRESTRICTED. So that no matter where you go (Apart from town) there is always the risk of bad guys being around.

How boring would stories like Lord of the Rings be if all the protagonists didnt have to worry about that? They just wandered around in groups, and wacked mindless creatures one at a time as they brainlessly wandered into their swords/spells?

quote:
Originally posted by Hexy

Oh, but PvP games like SB are MUCH better right?

Day 1: Player army 1 attacks Player army 2's town.
Day 2: Player army 2 attacks Player army 1's town.
...
Rince and repeat.



No idea what SB is, but your description is nothing like UO. You obviously never played it in the good old days.

Day 1: I'm a nood wandering around finding out about the world
Day 2: Managed to kill something for once, yay
Day 3: Bought my first set of armor
Day 4:

10:00 Went a little too far from town and ended up running for my life because a group of PK's ambushed me.

10:05 Managed to make it to a town and yelled for help

10:06 Good guys started flowing out of the town attacking the PK's

10:10 After a very cool battle with more people gating in, the PK's ended up wiping everyone out (It WAS a fair fight) including me.

I dont ever remember anything that cool happening with AI people.

quote:
Originally posted by Hexy

PvP is kind of not having any 'high end' content in the game. It's like the developers saying "Well, we're too lazy to make an end game, so we'll just let the players fight eachother."


Once again, you obviously never played UO. Because the developers made a huge interesting world with lots to do apart from PvP. The fact that you COULD PvP just brought the whole place to life.
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Post Wed May 14, 2003 3:31 pm
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Hexy
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
   

quote:
Originally posted by Chekote

Because a PvP RPG is nothing like an FPS. I dont play PvP RPG's to fight people, I play PvP RPG's to play in realistic world. You are completely missing the point. Just because there is full PvP (Not REQUIRED) does not mean that is all you do.

I played UO like an RPG should be played. I went out, tried to make a living, met people, built a house, Fought creatures etc.

But the difference between that and a non-PvP MMORPG is that while I was doing all this, there was real evil people to worry about. Its a completely different world when you go out to chop some wood and have to worry about a REAL necromancer jumping out of the trees and attacking you.



Yeah, sure, I also think having to worry about being killed at almost any time and place by someone is very realistic. But more importantly, I think it's FUN having no say in what happen around me, having to suck up being killed and loosing a lot of time. Yep. Specially since people don't need to worry about retribution for their actions in an MMORPG.
Chaos is fun, but only in a controlled environment.

I like beeing able to go out, kill monsters, and then maybe fight others in a controlled environment. And, at times, particapate in large scale battles.

quote:
Originally posted by Chekote

I agree that REQUIRED PvP isnt good. But thats not what I said. Required PvP would basically turn it into deathmatch. Its not required, is UNRESTRICTED. So that no matter where you go (Apart from town) there is always the risk of bad guys being around.

How boring would stories like Lord of the Rings be if all the protagonists didnt have to worry about that? They just wandered around in groups, and wacked mindless creatures one at a time as they brainlessly wandered into their swords/spells?



Required PvP isn't unrestricted? Well, you're not technically REQUIRED to fight at any place except for a city. But if someone attacks you, you ARE basically REQUIRED to fight back or die.

quote:
Originally posted by Chekote

Day 1: I'm a nood wandering around finding out about the world
Day 2: Managed to kill something for once, yay
Day 3: Bought my first set of armor
Day 4:

10:00 Went a little too far from town and ended up running for my life because a group of PK's ambushed me.

10:05 Managed to make it to a town and yelled for help

10:06 Good guys started flowing out of the town attacking the PK's

10:10 After a very cool battle with more people gating in, the PK's ended up wiping everyone out (It WAS a fair fight) including me.

I dont ever remember anything that cool happening with AI people.



Not that I have played UO, but wouldn't it also be able to go something like this:

10:05 Was killed by PKs who stole all my hard-earned stuff and set me back several hours. YAY!

quote:
Originally posted by Chekote

Once again, you obviously never played UO. Because the developers made a huge interesting world with lots to do apart from PvP. The fact that you COULD PvP just brought the whole place to life.



Yes, the fact that you can PvP brings a game to life. The fact that you basically HAVE to PvP to be able to do anything just takes the fun away.
Post Wed May 14, 2003 4:37 pm
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Where’s my Banana?!?!




Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green
   

quote:
Originally posted by Hexy

But more importantly, I think it's FUN having no say in what happen around me, having to suck up being killed and loosing a lot of time. Yep. Specially since people don't need to worry about retribution for their actions in an MMORPG.



There are retributions. There are good people who hunt them down, and they suffer the same losses when they die.

Last time I checked, when I died in a Non-PvP game I was also "having to suck up being killed and loosing a lot of time".

The PK's have no advantage over you, so I dont see how you have no say in what happens around you. You have just as much potential as an evil player.

quote:
Originally posted by Hexy

Required PvP isn't unrestricted? Well, you're not technically REQUIRED to fight at any place except for a city. But if someone attacks you, you ARE basically REQUIRED to fight back or die.



you are not required to do anything. Its a role playing game, why dont you role play? Not everyone fights, some people run, some people panic. Thats why they call it a role playing game...

quote:
Originally posted by Hexy

Not that I have played UO, but wouldn't it also be able to go something like this:

10:05 Was killed by PKs who stole all my hard-earned stuff and set me back several hours. YAY!



That is exactly what happened. But to me that makes it all the more fun. In all the current MMORPG's, you hardly ever lose anything. So its always a upward progression. To me that gets old very very quickly.

quote:
Originally posted by Hexy

Yes, the fact that you can PvP brings a game to life. The fact that you basically HAVE to PvP to be able to do anything just takes the fun away.


You dont HAVE to do anything. Its a "Role Playing Game", not a "Script Reading Game".

PvP taking the fun away is obviouslly a matter of personal taste/oppinion.
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IMHO my opinion is humble
Post Wed May 14, 2003 4:58 pm
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Abbath
Keeper of the Gates
Keeper of the Gates




Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 101
Location: Norway
   

quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
quote:
Originally posted by Abbath
I just need to say that if you're going to play planetside, you need to sign up for the beta, and then they pick you out of lots of people if they think you sound good.


Thats only if you go the normal beta route. The fileplanet route already has authorized clients, so you just download and go.



strange cause i downloaded it and i have to sign up
Post Wed May 14, 2003 5:26 pm
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Where’s my Banana?!?!




Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green
   

You have to sign up, but Fileplanet should have given you a key so that you CAN sign up.

Without the key you would have to apply for permission to be in the beta.
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Post Wed May 14, 2003 5:28 pm
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