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Spunior
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 117
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I definitely prefer reviews from genre specific sites. If it's a strategy game, I'll check out Wargamer.com and the like, if it's RPGs I take a look at RPGDot and the sites they link to respectively. (In the case of titles like Gothic 2 I simply take the risk and buy them without for waiting for reviews though.) I only take a look at IGN/Gamspot/Gamespy reviews to see how a game is communicated to the 'mass market' since those sites certainly reach a part of that audience.
Advantage of genre specific (or fan driven) sites:
1) The person to test a game usually has a clue about the genre.
2) The person to test the game probably likes this specific sub genre (whereas bigger sites might let the 'Diablo guy' test Morrowind or Gothic.
3) The person to write the review has probably beaten the game. He spent a lot more time with the game than the IGN/GS/GSpy either way. They might spend more time on a game they liked, but if it's a game it doesn't grab their attention at first time they'll probably not invest a lot more time into that since the review has to be out fast and isn't paid that well.
4) The person to test the game has actually bought it. I think it's quite a difference if you spend your own money or if you receive a review copy for free. If it's your money, you're likely to play it longer even if you don't like it initially. If it's your money you're also going to be a bit more critical about certain other aspects since you want to see something for the cash you handed over. |
Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:07 am |
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Hagatha
King of the Realms
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 456
Location: Burnaby, B.C. |
I have to say that review really suprises me, too. I just finished G2, and I'd have to say it is one of the very best games I have ever played. I loved everything about it - couldn't wait to get home from work for three weeks - sneaked out early, even. Good thing I don't read professional reviews. |
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Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:18 am |
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Bytespawn
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 295
Location: Belgium |
I think i know the reason: the reviewer thinks the game is so hard that he couldn't beat a bandit at lvl one, lets say the bandit with your picture. he thought, "hey that must be a peace of cake for somebody who defeated the sleeper himself. I'll hit the the forward attack button a few times and he'll be probably lying at my feet. But hey what an AI: the guy blocks, jumps around in order not to get hit, i simply couldn't hit him, and i WON'T use my blocking skill on one of the first hostile creatures i meet. But i died, and i think the AI is to smart, i want to level up, so i can defeat him. Hey wait a second, i've just realised that i suck at this game, lets rate it 2 out of 5, then people think i've really done my best" (what a loser)
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One blade good, two blade better |
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Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:27 am |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
I wonder if he's giving his honest opinion, or if he played the game for ten minutes then gave it 2 out of 5. I have not played Gothic 2, but I know it is a great game (I plan on ordering it from Amazon today!  ). They've got it on sale for $34.99! I hope that PC Gamer (the only game magazine I subscribe to) gives it a good review. Wait, I just remembered! They have RPG guru Desslock working for them now, and if he reviews it (which he should), he'll give it a good score because he likes Gothic. That little butthead from Gamespy should put out a public apology for what he did. What a moron! Why don't they get somebody who likes true RPGs (like Gothic,NWN, Fallout, Baldur's Gate 2, Morrowind, Arcanum, etc.) to review Gothic 2 instead of this Diablo and Dungeon Siege (good ACTION games) fan? Words cannot describe the anger I feel toward that lousy SOB.  
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OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
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Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:39 pm |
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Spunior
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 117
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Yeah, the PC Gamer review is likely to be quite positive since Desslock is enjoying the game (so far). |
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Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:06 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
quote:
Originally posted by Spunior
Yeah, the PC Gamer review is likely to be quite positive since Desslock is enjoying the game (so far).
What do you mean? How do you know he's even playing it?
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OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
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Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:59 pm |
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Spunior
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 117
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Because that's what he said?  He is indeed reviewing G2 for PCG. |
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Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:44 pm |
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Secret Agent Lawanda
The last thing you see...
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: World of Darkness (LA) |
Those guys need to streamline their hiring process to exclude mentally challanged people. I've heard of equal opportunity, but that's ridiculous!
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Moderator of The Anime and Manga Fan Club |
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Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:54 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
I also read Desslock is reviewing G2. If anybody can get his hands on that review I would like to have a scan.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:11 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
quote:
Originally posted by Spunior
Because that's what he said? He is indeed reviewing G2 for PCG.
Thank goodness. 
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:40 am |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
quote:
Originally posted by konny666
A few things. First, I am not surprised at the overzealousness of Gothic fans who think "8.1/10" is such a horrible score for G2.
Gothic 2 is a fantastic game. And I don't say that because I'm overzealous. I say that as a critical gamer who's gaming experience dates back to 1974 when games were blips and bleeps and I was only 7 years old.
8.1 out of 10 isn't a bad score, I agree with that. But speaking for myself, the GameSpy review of Gothic 2 is simply quite poor.
Why? First, the author makes numerous misleading statements. And second, the bulk of his review is too subjective relative to his personal expectations of a CRPG.
I wish there was a review site for reviews. This GameSpy review would get a 1 out of 10.
quote:
"New levels are scarce, especially in the first several hours of the game.
Subjective and misleading. Subjective in that it is not necessarily good or bad if leveling up is a slow process in a CRPG - some people can and do enjoy a slower paced rate of character development. Misleading because while G2 is a bit slower in the leveling up department, it isn't so much slower as compared to other CRPGs out there to point it out as some kind of flaw or being hugely different from other CRPGs... unless I guess if you're thinking of Diablo 2... which in that case really isn't a rational comparison. You’re not going to get to level 99 playing G2 like you might in Diablo 2 or Morrowind. And not surprisingly, it isn’t necessary either. Based on this line of reasoning, I wondered why the author didn’t make a criticism that in G2 having 4k of gold isn’t fun? Because in other games you can get in the hundreds of thousands of ‘gold pieces.’
quote:
That's largely because it's hard to come by monsters your weakened hero can handle; you have to avoid the tougher ones, and you eventually reach a point where you've killed most of the weaker ones and have to spend considerable time just hunting for more.
Again, subjective and misleading. Misleading because I found plenty of monsters that I could handle with no armor and a 'heavy branch' - the weakest attack and defense status your character can have in G2 (well, except for fighting bare handed). This isn’t Diablo 2, there aren’t hordes of baddies around every corner. This is a game that rewards adventuring, checking behind a large boulder or mountain, might yield a nice item or an unexpected encounter with a monster who’s holding a can of whoop-a$$ for you.
Subjective because the author attributes a negativity to having to avoid tough monsters. I happen to think that is a huge plus - what is the point of developing a character if you can have free reign of the world from day one? Morrowind's 'ninja monkies' (monsters who's level and power adjust relative to the player's statistics) is an interesting and enjoyable concept - but the idea of hard wired 'difficult' monsters also has its place as well - at least if you are trying to be objective. Remember playing Ultima IV and how your stomach leaped into your throat when you realized you had to fight a Daemon? I remember that experience, but I don't really recall negative reviews of Ultima IV anymore.
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To make matters worse, your character doesn't improve a whole lot with each new level; your stats and skills don't increase at all. Instead, you get a handful of additional hit points, plus ten learning points you can spend augmenting your strength, dexterity, and mana or acquiring new skills by training with non-player characters you'll encounter. Those ten points don't go very far when it costs five to make any significant advance in any given stat.
Again and again, subjective and misleading. Subjective because once again, the author attributes negativity to the idea that improving only a little bit when you level is a negative experience. And again, this isn't Diablo 2 (and by the way, I enjoyed Diablo 2 so don't think I'm bashing that game). Grossly misleading by stating that your, 'skills don't increase at all' and then immediately and bizarrely contradicting himself by stating that you get, 'ten learning points you can spend augmenting' your stats. Just a big bizarre contradiction there.
quote:
Better equipment is hard to come by, too, and moving up to an improved weapon isn't just a matter of having the gold to buy it; it also means spending learning points to augment your strength or agility before you can even equip it, and that means leveling up. The armor situation is even worse -- you can't take it off defeated enemies, and except in rare situations, nobody sells the stuff. You get better armor by advancing in your class and earning the armor associated with your new status. All of this can lead to frustration as you're struggling to level up. You'll find yourself wishing you had better weapons and armor and knowing you're a long way from either.
I can't help but feel this author was expecting a Diablo 2, Dungeon Siege, or Morrowind experience and that his expectations went woefully unmet. True, better equipment is hard to come by. Is that really a negative though? It could be, based on your personal preferences and expectations. Games like Diablo 2 and Morrowind have an abundance of armor and it's a lot of fun equipping yourself with the numerous items you can find. Gothic 2 doesn't focus on armor a whole lot. Bad? Good? It's a personal opinion. Diablo 2 doesn't offer up a whole lot of story and Morrowind's world and NPC's feel very static - each of these characteristics being a strength in Gothic 2. This author's personal preferences have become blinders by this point of the 'review.'
quote:
Combat takes place in real-time, and that adds another layer of difficulty. The action doesn't stop when you access your inventory menu, so the enemy just keeps on attacking while you frantically try to select and use a much-needed item (this is made even more difficult by the bizarre lack of a mouse cursor; you have to select items with the arrow keys). You can assign hotkeys to healing scrolls and spells, but not to potions, so if your character is a fighter with no spells and little mana to spend using scrolls, it's essentially impossible to heal your character during a fight. It can be a dodgy proposition even for a magic user, since even switching to a scroll or spell via hotkeys can take deadly seconds.
To be fair, the author does have a leg to stand on with some of his criticisms here. But he goes from fair to misleading very quickly. You can in fact assign hotkeys to potions. Also misleading is the statement that mages in the game have extra difficulty because of the 'seconds' needed to switch to a scroll or spell during combat - this is the same for melee based characters when switching from say a crossbow to a sword. Misleading also because this is all characterized as a negative experience, which isn't necessarily true for all gamers.
quote:
The upshot is that you have little choice when a battle turns ugly but to run for your life and hope the enemy isn't very fast or determined; otherwise, you'd better have a recent save to fall back to.
Subjective. At least you can run for your life in this game - and the concept is implemented very well in G2. Monsters have varying run speeds, have certain habits that can be exploited, and won't chase you forever. The concept of turning and running from a fight is excellent and few games implement it very well. In fact, because monsters won't follow you forever, I chose many times to run from fights instead of reloading - which to me is great because in true RPG fashion, I lived with the consequences of failure more often in G2 than many other CRPGs I have played - because I could get away and not be pursued until dead which is the likely outcome in most CRPGs.
quote:
You end up avoiding any fight you're not sure you can win, which takes some of the excitement out of the game and further slows the process of building your character.
Just a silly statement. In fact, I went up many times against creatures I wasn't sure if I could beat, but the times that I did in fact beat them, those times were very fun and exciting. The tomb of Inibus can in fact be defeated in chapter 1 if your patience playing a game exceeds that of a nat. And because you can run away and get away (if you know when to turn and run), I lived with the consequences from my failed attempts at battling monsters. For me, this was all fun. And if I thought it was fun, it's very likely I'm not the only gamer on the planet who would think so. So this comment by the reviewer is again, hugely subject.
quote:
All the dialogue in the game is spoken, and the voice acting is generally decent, with the handful of bad performances or cornball accents coming from minor characters. Graphics range from average to very good; some character models and animations are weak, but the game's environments and items are sharp and detailed.
Misleading. Not because of what the author points out, but because of what he doesn't point out. The author again lets his own preferences blind him from a more objective view of the game. What about the NPC schedules? What about the differing dialog options? What about the NPC memory? Morrowind was bashed in reviews regarding NPCs which were generally described as 'static.' Here is a game where life has been breathed into the NPCs and not a word about it is mentioned.
In any review, I am very much interested in the author's subjective opinions, as long as those personal preferences are not the highlight of the review. A review should be primarily about the advertised merits of the game.
Sadly, reviews like this, where personal preferences take front seat in this ‘look at ME’ world we live in, are routinely posted on Internet gaming sites. As a gamer with limited funds and time, it’s always best to read as many reviews as possible to get the best possible perspective on a game. Reading just one review, say in the instance of this review of Gothic 2, could steer you away from an otherwise fantastic game. And this can work the other way as well, where a review could steer you into purchasing a horrid game.
If you don’t have a money tree growing in your backyard, read, read, read, and read some more. The internet can provide very cheap access to an abundance of information – both a blessing and a curse.
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:12 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
In a few days I'll have Gothic 2 (I just ordered it off Amazon), and when I finish it, I'll post my review of the game on this board.
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:17 pm |
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