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ArS
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Mexico |
| another revoultion of RPGs |
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SETTING
Gamers are getting a very big sense of DEJA VU every time they play a fantasy RPG (or at least I am).
To save the RPG genre from redunadancy rpgs need not to evolve but to vary, it seems that for 10 fantasy rpgs theres 1 alternate setting one(cyberpunk,sci-fi,steampunk,others).
Remeber that Fallout saved RPGs from a very likely death, and it used an alternate setting (nuclear war-aftermath wasteland).
Not only the setting was original but also the story(retrieving a water chip to save your vault),the skills and stats (SPECIAL) and the gameplay ( it gave you a lot of reedom from the get go, something not seen in 1997).
Developers need to tap into these little goldmines, they would not be exhausted settings and you can avoid a lot of cliches from fantasy games.
some developers are already going{or have gone in the case of TROIKA(arcanum--steampunk--)} in the direction of alternate setttings wich is the case with BIOWARE'S upcoming Jade(chinese myths){before Im flamed I know its for the XBOX, but c'mon aren't you a little intrigued?} and the soon-to-be released in the PC Knights of the Old Republic(sci-fi).
This is just one few way to revitilize a genre that's getting stuck with the a very cliched fantasy setting, a story that is redone everytime(retrieve this, fight an ancient evil,save that princess,etc) and the very familiar first side-quest(kill the rats in the cellar).
change the setting and let creativity take over.
NON-LINEARITY
non-linear gameplay is always a welcomed feature by gamers.
Games need to start being more interactive.
The industry was more andvanced in the gameplay department in the early 90īs than it is right now with a few excepitions.
It seems that with graphics technology advancing we are more interested in redoing old games with pretty graphics( a good example is ID software, they re-do DOOM everytime they develop a new engine).
As graphics go up, gameplay and depth go slowly down.
are developers too afraid to try radical ideas? ((that damn marketing department and those pesky publisher suits))
I wish I was introduced to computer games earlier (Im 16 and started really gettin into PC games in 1999 with Half-life,but I still played DOOM when I was younger and also Wolf3d) so I could play Ultima VII and enjoy the world Richard Garriot had crafted.
TWO examples to follow:
Ultima VII (open-eneded gameplay)
Gothic (NPC interaction and schedules)
This is just a midnight rant that made me feel pretty smart(yet again, this comes from a guy that thought the resident evil series were the best games of all-time a few years ago--I prefer Deus EX or Fallout now).
expect to hear ideas or thoughts from everyone here.
PS. 3D graphics are only going to be accepted by the most hardcore RPGer, when these are as detailed as 2D.(maybe in like 5 yrs. max)
*most of these ideas apply to RPGs only. |
Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:54 am |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
I agree with most of your points, but i think that not only do rpgs need more settings but i think they should have more humor. Hell, even an rpg that revolves around humor would be better than a new setting. I'm gettin awful tired of being so damn serious all the time... In games you sometimes have a best friend or whatever, but they never get to just joke around or get into mischief! WERE THEY BEAT AS CHILDREN?!?!
Anyway, I dont really know where I'm going with this so I'll just shut up.
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If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:42 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
PS-T and DD both had humour, as did many of the M&M series. Arx had a few humorous scenes also, but I agree, I enjoy the humour. You're not going to get too many games away from the fantasy setting though. Why? Simple $$$$$$ they sell well and that's the bottom line. They are also safer to make because of the built in market. Remember, RPG's are VERY expensive to make and unless they have all the bells and whistles, some reviewer will slash it. I don't think Anachronox did that well, yet it had humour, 3D graphics, an alternate setting, great characters and tons of gameplay and story. What went wrong? Probably the company closing half its offices and laying off staff while not really spending much money advertising the game. I really enjoyed it. If you haven't played it, and can find it, give it a go.
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If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 9:16 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
Well ArS, I don't disagree with you - but lots of people do. We've had discussions here about fantasy vs. non-fantasy settings and every time a majority of posters say in the end, 'you know, I prefer my swords and magic'. |
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 9:29 am |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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First off, Fallout didn't save anything. Baldur's Gate did. Nor did Fallouts introduce anything spectacular. Freedom has been in many games (examples: The Krynn series, Betrayal at Krondor).
Secondly, I see nothing wrong with the old stuff, medieval settings etc. Sure, new things are cool, but since there hasn't been a perfect medieval setting yet, I see no reason for devs to not try to bring in their own visions of the dark ages.
Non-linearity. Yes. We all want non-linearity. This is a known fact, which I THINK MANY developers know. Why don't we have it? Because it's HARD to get good non-linearity. All games that are non-linear, become repetetive and stale, like Darklands or Daggerfall.
3D graphics are only going to be accepted when they look like 2D graphics?
Wow. Funny, I never thought that. I want my game to look realistic and cool, with nice light effects and dimensions, NOT like a stale, frozen crayon painting. I guess I'm just not hard-core or old-skewl like some people who've only played RPGs for 3 years.
_________________
Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 9:46 am |
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Fl00der
Village Dweller
Joined: 05 Oct 2003
Posts: 10
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I agree. You are so right  |
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 2:39 pm |
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elkston
High Emperor
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 691
Location: North Carolina, USA |
You make some good points, and I welcome the thought of more original game backdrops.
However, I will say that I would rather play yet-another-tolkeinesque fantasy game with fantastic gameplay than something wholly original, but clunky.
A good story and setting can add terrific color to a game. But it is much more important that the things you *do*, the game mechanics, are fun and interesting.
Games that happen to have *both* are true winners (Gothic, Ultima series, Jagged Alliance 2), but if you are only going to excel in one, making the game "fun" to play should be a priority.
P.S. Example of the latter: The recent "Temple of Elemental Evil". Very much a dungeon hack where you are stopping an evil cult. Classic fantasy world. But the combat is the meat of the game and it is a joy to behold.
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All shall hear the words of Karras...the words of Karras |
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 3:23 pm |
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ArS
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Mexico |
Im not saying that RPGs have not been open-ended, Im saying that most of the modern ones havent(not all)
and Fallout did save the genre because of the funds it acquired for the development of Baldurs Gate and the reoutation it gave to Black Isle.
This are my views anyway |
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 4:20 pm |
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ArS
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Mexico |
that's reputation,sorry  |
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 4:25 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
I agree totally that new things should be tried.
I would love to see a game based on Harn (there was a game being developed and thats how I found out about harn but I believe it was cancelled).
I wouldn't mind a game being shorter, but have top quality combat and have more open endedness than anything before. So it might only have 20 hours of game play, but you can replay it 5 times and have a tottaly different experience.
Imagine the party interaction of PS:T, combat even better than ToEE, and 100 time better dialogue options with NPC's than we have seen, in a game with more open-endedness than anything we've seen. In an original setting, with an original system, with no baggage.
I think a game like this could have a great backstory, but very minimal plot. Kind of like Morrowind I guess (just for how there was a great backstory but very non-linear).
This might be my dream game, but I'm sure others might not find it to be theirs. I just don't see how you can have a very good story and plot and not be linear. And I think the more involving dialogue and choices, the shorter the game will have to be. I would rather have a super open shorter game, than a little-open long game. |
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 4:53 pm |
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Zephyr Elvirion
Baron of the Court
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 336
Location: New Zealand. |
Yeah, I'd like to see a game where your choice of character actually made a difference to the game. I keep coming back to games that're always violence oriented, why not reward a non-violent aproach to solving a particular piece, like; if you sneak past the enemy and pull its tail, or dig a tunnell and have it cave in - I dunno, scenarios that you have to THINK about instead of just wading in with swords flashing. <shrug> but then again I guess that's what you guys (men, I mean  ) want. To see blood and gore and to kill things. Must be the cave-man mentality 
Ohh reminds me............why is that the guys in RPGs are all armoured up and the women are wearing flimsy wisps with their <cough> assets hangin' out? Yeah, yeah I know it LOOKS good, but hey - we get hurt in battle too you know <puffs up> Still I guess it goes to show we ARE tougher after all!! 
Ohhh another thing ----- Is it just me, or does the box cover of TOEE look like a pigs head from a slight distance? (that pinky thing looks like its snout and the dun colourd shaggy coat behind ---- ah you get the idea
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There're 3 sorts of people who're good at maths - those that are and those that aren't. |
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:54 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
Have you played the Guest for Glory series? There is always at least 3 ways to solve the same problem, at least one is usually non-violent.
My wife mentioned the same thing you did about the females always being mostly naked in my games. My guess is that, from what I've seen of game developers, they don't get much action so the put hot girls and prostitutes in games. If girls made a game they would probably fill it with wierd-o's whose favorite past time is talking about how their day is and understand emotions. And of course look like Fabio. |
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Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:07 am |
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Zephyr Elvirion
Baron of the Court
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 336
Location: New Zealand. |
OI!! Roqua that's not nice - n' I was gonna take yer wife n' all 
Actually, between swapping receipes on how to stew Orc livers we'd be right there in the front lines, hackin' & slashin' with the best of 'em - OTHER women of course
No, I've not tried the 'Quest for Glory' series. If you recommend it I'll .....ummm..... avoid it like the plague, lol. No, seriously - I'll give it a go. I'll always try something that someone recommends [or I'll read at least a couple of reviews, lol.
Ohh........I found out something I mentioned on another thread, but I can't recall which one it was now,  Anyway......I was talking about a guy selling games on an auction site saying that the manuals and boxes weren't included as they quote, "aren't in english" After I posted a thread on it on the site I was proved right - they're from Singapore  The guy who answered said the games worked fine, but as I pointed out - so does my <cough> gold Rolex. What-ever way you look at it - it's still a Pirate, and therefore the people who made the game aren't getting their money. PLUS he's not even selling them real cheap - usually around the $30 - 40 mark GBP10 - 13 Considering they prolly only cost about $1.50 HHmmmm what to do?!?!?!
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There're 3 sorts of people who're good at maths - those that are and those that aren't. |
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Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:50 am |
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Kabduhl
City Guard
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 127
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don't buy games from pirates?
and ramble less =) |
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Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:01 am |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Man, Hexy, you can argue your points, but do you really have to insult people along with it? Seriously. . .
Anyway, I'm not sure if Fallout actually saved the genre from dying, but it sure as hell revolutionized it! If there hadn't been Fallout, I don't think there'd be Dues Ex and many other sci-fi RPGs. Without, Fallout, the genre is lost, not dead.
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OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:04 am |
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