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| Who will be U.S president |
| Bush |
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53% |
[ 16 ] |
| Kerry |
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46% |
[ 14 ] |
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| Total Votes : 30 |
Lintra
Elf Friend

Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
Editorial note: The US is NOT a democracy .. it is a representitive democracy. There is a HUGE difference. _________________ =Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:40 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor


Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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quote:
So US citizens can decide who to pick as president but not if the agree with a war? Wouldn't a true democracy have the people deciding issues such as war?
The US is a representitive democracy, aways has been. The population of a state picks who that state wants to be as president. The name of the country is the UNITED STATES. All the states decide who will be president through the electoral college. It is not the UNTIDED PEOPLES DEMOCRACY, it is the UNTIDED STATES.
Please try not to contradict yourself, if the majority people's choice should be president, then the majority peoples's war should be accepted.
Uh... you ask me why I'm against a war in Iraq if the democracy wants it. I say i'ts because I believe it's wrong. Doesn't matter if the majority wants it. If the majority wants a president, but don't get the one they choose, it's not very democratic. And I don't have to like it. If the majority wants a war, and get it, you could call it democracy, but that does NOT mean that I MUST LIKE IT nor that I must believe it's justified. See the friggin' difference??
You see the ying and the yang, grasshoppah? _________________ Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:50 pm |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight


Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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Quite apart from the fact that the population was (and largely still is) misinformed about the true threat Iraq imposed and about its "involvement" with the 9-11 attack (as has increasingly come to light) and influenced by rather tilted media reports in the aftermath of 9-11.
Which is at least partly again the responsibility of the government. Finally a debate on whether to begin a war or not would have been led differently had the population really been the one to decide the question. I see the difference in Switzerland quite regularly. |
Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:52 pm |
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Bartacus
Il Buono

Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
quote: Originally posted by Lintra
Mr Clinton. I think his foreign policy is best summed up by the nick name Cruise Missle Bill. I dunno who came up with it, but when a friend of mine used it I had to steal the term ... it is so delightfully succinct.
Weird, I consider Clinton as one of the best US presidents in foreign policy. The middle east was far more at peace then under Bush.(Depends a lot on Sharon and Arafat off course, but..) In most European countries(exc UK and maybe Spain) Clinton exceeds Bush(both) in almost every way. I know off course that's also because our media projects him like that.
This is getting way off topic but I think I should warn some of you about the danger of reading and viewing only American news. Before the war in Iraq(2nd one) they builded it up that it was true and just to attack Iraq. They pictured Sadam as a man who could fire a missile to the US like it was no problem. I think most of you understand now this wasn't the truth, but think why most European media didn't follow this idea. I presume that in some way Bush is controling your media and that's about the scariest thing that can happen. A president that controls the media. _________________ Moderator and Council Magician of the RPGDot Shadows
member of the Sports Fans Forum
Leader's Right Hand at the Gothic Rogues
NFG member |
Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:15 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer

Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote: Originally posted by Bartacus
So why did they attack Iraq now, Lintra. They didn't have a UN mandate either and Sadam wasn't busy doing anything. He was no immediate threath to the USA, nor the UK, nor Spain.
Actually, careful examination of the applicable UN resolutions will show that military force was authorized under certain conditions. The argument in the UN was whether those conditions were met, NOT whether armed conflict was sanctioned. _________________ =Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:23 pm |
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Sir Markus
Counselor of the King


Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA |
Why don't you ask the people in Spain about the threats posed by muslim fundamentalism. Tell you what, I'm getting sick and tired of people launching verbal attacks at America when we're the ones trying to solve this terrorist problem in the first place. Just wait until some extremist toasts the Eifel tower or gets his hands on a nuclear device and levels Bonn. Hexy, do you seriously think you can play 'nicey nice' with these monsters? Do you seriously think you can negotiate with terrorists? If you don't like American policy as it applies to terrorists, why don't you give us some alternate solutions. |
Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:25 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes

Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
@Hexy: Am I honestly supposed to take that hate-spewing rhetoric as credible?
I've seen the ads, they aren't attack ads. I've also heard from other people who had loved ones die in 9-11 and they have no problem with Bush using those images. I also find it ironic that the people he does quote from belong to a group that's backrolled by a Teresa Heinz Kerry foundation.
Kindly find a credible source if you want me to believe anything stated in that article you quoted. Preferable one where the journalist isn't foaming at the mouth. In the meantime, I'll laugh it up.
Besides, there is nothing wrong with Bush using it in my opinion. FDR practically ran over his competition using Pearl Harbor and actual war footage in his campaigns. Now the shoe is on the other foot.
Ah yes, hindsight is always 20/20. It's always easy to say that someone should have known something after the fact. Just like I should have known one day back in October of 2000 that I'd get in a car accident that day. All the signs are there. Car accidents happen every day to tons of people at any time and without warning. However, that didn't stop me from going out driving that day and getting hit by someone in another car. The point I'm trying to make is that the US recieves threats every single day. The trouble is recognizing the credible ones and stopping them. When the intelligence community is divided, that is more difficult. It took a disaster to cause the government to get these agencies to start integrating and working together more.
As for the commission not having complete access, I agree. There are things that the public doesn't need access to if it'll hurt national security. In this case, I'll choose patience and wait for the facts before drawing any conculsions. We'll see if Bush disappoints me here. Heaven knows he's disappointed me on other issues, but not enough for me to see Kerry as a viable alternative.
A job is a job.
@Bartacus: The President doesn't control the media. If you watch more than one American channel or read more than one American newspaper, you'd start to see the differences.
Bleh, I need to stop posting in this topic and do my homework.
Be nice. _________________ Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:53 am |
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NidPuterGuy
Fearless Paladin

Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 237
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Bush is a bona fide habitual liar. Lied about Iraq and lies about anything else that he can. His policies or lack thereof are devastating the US economy. His main issues are gay marriage, same sex high schools and drug testing high schoolers. The US has serious problems. Namely:
Jobs
Health care
Foreign policy
Deficit
National debt
Lying about WMD's and the Iraq war
These are the real issues. Not running around yelling Al Quaida at every turn and landing on aircraft carriers for photo ops. You are going to find that most bush supporters are brainwashed religious types that would follow him off a cliff. |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:38 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer

Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote: Originally posted by NidPuterGuy
You are going to find that most bush supporters are brainwashed religious types that would follow him off a cliff.
Oh please. Is that the best you can do? I haven't been to church in 2 decades (other than weddings and funerals). Now try a little harder because I'm late for my political reprogramming session.  _________________ =Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:55 am |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom

Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
Geez, all these people just hate 'ol Dubya so immensely! I just cannot wait to see him re-elected, what a glorious day that will be. Im not some kind of lemming by the way, Im a Tiger!='.'= One thing about us Tigers, is that we know US politics, and I havent been wrong predicting one election yet. Im in the same political faction as he, yes I agree with his political positions. If *anyone* here is told how to think by their govt, its all the good little socialists. There are a few things that Ive disagreed with him about quite vehemently. But, one thing I agree with him on, is foreign policy. Everyone seems to labor under this illusion that ol Dubya lied about Iraq. The UN only whined about Iraq threat for ten years. They are the ones who passed the resolutions. If anything, they ballyhooed so much about the Hussein regime that someone finally did something about it. That someone was Dubya. He saw the carnage of 9/11 and realized for once and for all, something had to be done before it was too late.
Bartacus, the reason why you liked Clinton so much on foreign policy, is because he didnt DO ANYTHING! LOL! He was so great on foreign policy, that the North Koreans are now the wonderful gulag nation with nukes. He did so great with foreign policy, that he refused Bin Laden as a prisoner, twice! The guy did a great job in Haiti too, didnt he? Took out those maniacal Serbs, sure glad for that one. He also attacked Iraq as well, but noone seems to mind that. People dont seem too ticked off that he shot down the holy Kyoto protocol as well. Wheres all this great Clinton foreign policy? We just lay down and die? Offer our throats to the enemy? Saladin laughs at you from beyond the grave, as his new soldiers sharpen their swords. _________________ “Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain
Last edited by xSamhainx on Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:05 am |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler

Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
quote: Originally posted by NidPuterGuy
Bush is a bona fide habitual liar.
We are already aware of the fact that he is a politician.  _________________ If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:58 am |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner

Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
By the way, this thread is AWESOME! I have not laughed this hard in a long time! Keep it going!!! _________________ Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:16 am |
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Roqua
High Emperor


Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
quote: Originally posted by Korplem
quote: Originally posted by NidPuterGuy
Bush is a bona fide habitual liar.
We are already aware of the fact that he is a politician.
Ha _________________ Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:17 am |
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