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Thief 3: Project Leader Replaced
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RPGDot Forums > News Comments

Author Thread
Dwango
Head Merchant
Head Merchant




Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 68
   

quote:
Originally posted by piln
Well, yeah, I agree with you there. But my point is that there's no point taking on a negative frame of mind now, because there's absolutely no way to know what the game's like til you play it. Set your face against it, and when you finally play it every flaw will stick out like a sore thumb and you'll pay little heed to the good points. That's exactly what happened with DX:IW. People latched on to superficial details and convinced themselves not to give the game a fair crack of the whip; after playing the disappointing demo and reading the tirade of abuse on the Ion Storm forums, I made an effort to approach the full game with an open mind, forget my preconceptions, and I actually ended up enjoying it.


Up until the DX:IW demo, everyone was lavishing praise on it. I doubt many people were thinking negatively of DX:IW when they played the demo. And yet, after the demo came out, an explosion of negative comments occured. Of course they were thinking too positivily and any bad things they saw were over-blown. You can ultimately argue that no one can have a good opinion due to prejudices. Really, the only opinion you can trust is your own.

quote:

You made an example of the climbing gloves which illustrates my point - you assumed that the climbing gloves will offer no opportunities for cerebral play. Why? The new game has moving light & shadow, right? So, what if there's a climbable section that's right in the path of a patrolling torch-carrying guard, with "features" on the wall (gargoyles, vegetation, whatever) that you must hide behind when the guard comes by? Does that sound like it would require no thought or mastery of stealth? Why not give the level designers a little credit - which do you think is more likely: that they said "yeah, give 'em climbing gloves, and stick a climbable wall there, there and there, that'll do," or that they actually put some thought into it and tried to make some entertaining and taxing challeneges out of the new content?



In your example, there is a difference to approaching the situation. With a rope arrow, the player must waif for the gaurd to move far enough away not to hear the hit of the arrow against the wood. The player must also aim carefully as a miss might create sound which would cause the gaurd AI to investigate. With the gloves, I simply wait for the gaurd to pass by and run up the wall. This, to me is a speed up in the game play. For good or ill, we will know soon.

quote:

Of course, I don't know that positive state of affairs is true, either. My point is that, with very little effort, we can twist every piece of information we've received into overwhelmingly positive or negative speculation, but that we have no concrete evidence to base that speculation on. The closest we have is the gameplay movies, which I thought looked pretty good, but even they are unreliable. It's misguided to try and guess what the game will be like before we have any way of knowing, and convincing yourself of things that may or may not be true will only colour your judgement o the game when you finally come to play it.


Ultimately, we cannot determine if we like a game until we have played it from start to finish. But, to have this privilege, one would have to pay some $40-$60 (or whatever currency you use), and I'm not willing to just give that away on a whim. So, at best I will have to use an imperfect image of the game to determine if I will buy it. That will include screenshots, videos, official game decision announcements, previews, reviews, and player opinions. Will this prejudice my opinion of the game any if I do decide to buy it, I hope not. I like to trust that I or any other players will ultimately go into the game as you have, with open-mindedness. A player would be stupid to purchase the game if they thought they would hate it.
_________________
Ha, Ha, Ha.... Oh, you were SERIOUS?

-Dwango
Post Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:00 pm
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piln
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 906
Location: Leeds, UK
   

quote:
Originally posted by Dwango
I doubt many people were thinking negatively of DX:IW when they played the demo. And yet, after the demo came out, an explosion of negative comments occured.


Yeah, I know what you're saying. But I just think that if you set out to find faults, you will find them in abundance - in any game. Especially when individual components are taken out of the greater context of the game as a whole. It's easy to do, I could do it with my favourite games, but it's just nit-picking and is not indicative of overall quality or enjoyment. Deus Ex is one of my favourite games of all time, but it's riddled with minor flaws and niggling details. They didn't matter.

quote:
With the gloves, I simply wait for the gaurd to pass by and run up the wall.


Hmmm... don't want to sound too argumentative, but that doesn't really seem like an honest response to the example I stated. I deliberately tried to come up with a situation in which a straight dash up the wall would not be an option. Maybe it wasn't a good example... OK, try it this way - put aside your preconceptions about climbing gloves and your fondness for rope arrows (which I share, I thought they were brilliant), take into account all the known features of the new game and see if you can "design" an interesting/fun/challenging situation using the gloves. If you try, I'll bet you can; and if that's true, why assume that the game's level designers couldn't acheive the same?

quote:
...at best I will have to use an imperfect image of the game to determine if I will buy it. That will include screenshots, videos, official game decision announcements, previews, reviews, and player opinions.


And of course the demo (or hands-on experience of the full game before you buy). Reviews & other players' opinions are (hopefully!) formed after final release, so they are a relatively reliable source of 2nd-hand info. Currently, there is no such reliable source (except early hands-on previews, which you may find reliable if you trust the source - and iirc, all those that I've read have been favourable). That's why I'm saying I think it's a mistake to form a strong opinion now. Better, IMO, to put all the gossip and groundless "conclusions" aside, wait for the game and approach with (as you say) an open mind. Judge the game on its own merits (or lack thereof) rather than holding it up to a list of expectations you know it will not match (like wanting it to be largely "the same" as the previous two - we already know that's not going to happen, but that doesn't mean it's going to be a bad game. Get over it, or beat yourself up over something you can't change and that may not even be a problem - the choice is yours).

Well, I'm pretty sure we can agree on one thing - we hope the game is good. Fingers crossed, eh?
Post Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:09 pm
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