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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
| Morrowind: Games that Changed the World @ CVG |
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CVG has posted a retrospective on Bethesda's 'Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind', with the subtitle <a href="http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=120732" target="_blank">Games that changed the World</a>, including comments from Lead Designer Ken Rolston. Here's a clip:<blockquote><em>Despite Morrowind's resounding success, there have been very few imitators or even strongly influenced titles released since. Ken Rolston believes he knows why. "It's just too difficult. MMORPGs can provide vast landscapes and epic scope, but they lack the narrative depth to make those settings more than entertaining loot-and-advancement treadmills. Single-player games can spend more energy on character and story, but they generally don't have the time or resources to build such wide and deep settings."
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<br>In fact, it's likely that in this 3D-centric age of games development, no company will ever again attempt to create a game offering such breadth and freedom as Morrowind. Even Bethsoft seems to be narrowing the scope or altering the focus with Oblivion, which will feature less NPCs and fewer quests, with much of the emphasis on recreating convincing emotions and reactions in the game's inhabitants rather than on building the largest world possible.</em></blockquote> |
Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:00 pm |
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EverythingXenUnLogged
Guest
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Articles like this always make me feel a tiny, tiny, tiny bit bad that I didn't like Morrowind. The article mentions that MMORPGS don't have the character depth of Morrowind... uh... what depth are they referring to? The 'everyone says pretty much the same thing about a slew of meaningless topics' depth? The 'I will drive you crazy in any of the Cantons by having every dark elf in the crowd say one of a few canned lines... endlessly.' depth?
Some current MMORPGS like WoW actually have characters that you might remember (besides the race leaders, of course). At the very least their characters are equally as easiyl forgotten.
It was a great game in a lot of ways, sure... I loved how easy it was to mod, I love skill-driven leveling... but did it really change the industry? |
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:14 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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To clarify: I can see why some people might like it (my fiance did because she could steal anything not nailed down). You can appreciate that a game is good without enjoying it... that's how it is with me and Morrowind. I like a lot of the technical but to me it's never seemed to have a soul.
Especially the poorly animated, ugly by default NPCs... who I felt would have been more lively if they'd said 'mwwwaaahhhh.... brrraaaaaaiiins'. Balmora: City of the Living Dead.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:24 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
RPGs used to be one of the ugliest gaming genres around.
While the likes of Baldur's Gate and Diablo looked presentable enough in their day, such games were kept grovelling in the shade by the gloriously-lovely likes of Unreal, Half-Life et al. This was the unwritten rule until spring 2002, when PC roleplayers got their first real taste of succulent eye candy with the release of Morrowind
I don't like reading this type of thing.
The Ultima Underworld games were at the cutting edge of graphics - the first came out before Wolfenstein. (But it is typical that Looking Glass games are not recognised for this - System Shock was out before Doom for god's sakes)
Gothic came out before Morrowind, and had better outdoor graphics than any FPS of the time (not to mention animation). IMHO it still looks better than Morrowind because of its superior landscapes and animation.
In fact, RPGs pioneered the first-person perspective in games - the first 3d games were things like Akalabeth etc, were they not?? |
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:08 pm |
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Hindukönig
Guards Lieutenant
Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Halle (Saale) / Nuremberg [Germany] |
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
(But it is typical that Looking Glass games are not recognised for this - System Shock was out before Doom for god's sakes)
Really? Mobygames dates Doom 1993, System Shock 1994. |
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:32 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
To clarify: I can see why some people might like it (my fiance did because she could steal anything not nailed down). You can appreciate that a game is good without enjoying it... that's how it is with me and Morrowind. I like a lot of the technical but to me it's never seemed to have a soul.
Especially the poorly animated, ugly by default NPCs... who I felt would have been more lively if they'd said 'mwwwaaahhhh.... brrraaaaaaiiins'. Balmora: City of the Living Dead.
I totally concur, Xen. Morrowind was mind-numbing.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:32 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Val
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
To clarify: I can see why some people might like it (my fiance did because she could steal anything not nailed down). You can appreciate that a game is good without enjoying it... that's how it is with me and Morrowind. I like a lot of the technical but to me it's never seemed to have a soul.
Especially the poorly animated, ugly by default NPCs... who I felt would have been more lively if they'd said 'mwwwaaahhhh.... brrraaaaaaiiins'. Balmora: City of the Living Dead.
I totally concur, Xen. Morrowind was mind-numbing.
A long-standing controversy on these boards  to chime in for the other side, I count myself among those who really liked MW. While I dont deny its faults, the large beautiful world, the freedom to shape my chracter and to explore, the game lore and literature, and last but not least the mods for me more than made up for it. As much as I love the Gothic games: I spent maybe 50 hours on gothic 1 and 2 and night of the raven combined, but more than four times that much in MW and expansion and I still play and had fun modding on top of that. |
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:05 pm |
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crpgnut
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 197
Location: St. Louis |
I agree with that you picked out the one area of Morrowind that was not superior: NPC dialogue. If dialogue is your end-all be-all criteria in determining what makes a good crpg then Morrowind fails. Fortunately, for me and a few hundred thousand others, other criteria are as important or more important. Morrowind has a very large world that is ripe for exploration. They nailed the exploration part of the game, in my opinion. The graphics were and are the best created in a crpg to date. A few might argue that the tiny Gothic games were comparable. One look at Morrowind's night sky or viewing a city while levitating over it should convince them of the huge difference. Try levitating over a city in Gothic. The alchemy system in Morrowind is the most advanced attempt at this ever seen in a game. Might and Magic did this to a limited degree, but nothing like Morrowind! The amount of history that exists in the gameworld is another area where no game even comes close. Reading the books of TES allows the reader to feel like the world truly exists. The Elder Scrolls construction set also needs to be mentioned. While not the first to offer gamers a way to prolong the game, the TESCS is an extremely powerful editor that truly enhances the total Morrowind experience. These are just a few of the apects of Morrowind that "changed the world."
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'nut |
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:09 pm |
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bjon045
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 234
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quote:
Originally posted by crpgnut
Try levitating over a city in Gothic.
Whats your point here? I just did and I was wondering what I am supposed to be looking for? |
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:55 am |
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Guest
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Morrowind was crap. It had a linear story that was totally uninteresting. The combat was mind numbingly simple. The character development system sucked.
All it was was a pretty game where adventurers hopped about for excercise while bending over to pick weeds to get high off of. |
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:31 am |
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Dr. A
Guest
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Now i respect Morrowind for it's scope and depth. Its lore is remarkably well constructed and it had an interesting plot.
Exploration would have been more enjoyable if the world didn't look so "bland". And the walking speed was incredibly slow. Wat's the use of all that landmass if i walk like a lethargic snail.
Alchemy/Magic was cool but combat was a huge disappointment - Exciting encounters degenerated into frustrating clickfests.
The levelling up system was rather weird - using modifiers based on the respective traits.
Dialoge and journal system were mediocre at best.
Water was rendered excellently but other textures were rather average.
Lip synching of NPCs to spoken dialogue was done very well.
Sadly, I just can't get into MW...I have tried playing it 3 times. I always get bored after an hour or 2. And im not the sort who hates long-winded deeply-involving RPGs with massive amounts of dialoge and text! I love the Baldur's Gate games... 
I'm pretty sure someone will mod Morrowind using Oblivion...and that i think is the way Morrowind should have been... I REALLY REALLY want to enjoy the story but just can't play beyond 2 hours... 
I wish Bethesda all the best with Oblivion...and PB too! Gothic Rulez! |
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:15 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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quote:
Originally posted by crpgnut
I agree with that you picked out the one area of Morrowind that was not superior: NPC dialogue. If dialogue is your end-all be-all criteria in determining what makes a good crpg then Morrowind fails. Fortunately, for me and a few hundred thousand others, other criteria are as important or more important. Morrowind has a very large world that is ripe for exploration. They nailed the exploration part of the game, in my opinion. The graphics were and are the best created in a crpg to date. A few might argue that the tiny Gothic games were comparable. One look at Morrowind's night sky or viewing a city while levitating over it should convince them of the huge difference. Try levitating over a city in Gothic. The alchemy system in Morrowind is the most advanced attempt at this ever seen in a game. Might and Magic did this to a limited degree, but nothing like Morrowind! The amount of history that exists in the gameworld is another area where no game even comes close. Reading the books of TES allows the reader to feel like the world truly exists. The Elder Scrolls construction set also needs to be mentioned. While not the first to offer gamers a way to prolong the game, the TESCS is an extremely powerful editor that truly enhances the total Morrowind experience. These are just a few of the apects of Morrowind that "changed the world."
The NPCs wouldn't be so bad if they didn't look like they were important, every one of them. That's the problem with giving a unique name to each NPC: People expect them to be unique individuals. Had a lot of people been named 'townsfolk', like the guards were called guards, then people would only speak with the 'named' NPCs and let the rest be scenery. I applaud the effort to increase immersion by naming each person ... but it's only half the equation.
The graphics were good. I didn't really find them superior to Gothic's at the time. Both featured blocky, poorly textured NPCs with decent lip synching. Morrowind's scenery was a little more realistic (or fantastic in parts) than Gothics: I loved the dust and ash storms. Yes, when you ramp up the details a bit Morrowind does look better from a low orbit than Gothic does... and the starry sky and blood red moon are excellent.
However... the community ended up improving Morrowind's graphics dramatically. The better bodies, better faces, redone textures mods all made the game look crisper and better. The fact that a community, working with no budger and without production time of years, can improve graphics at all is both wonderful (for ease of modification) and terrible (why didn't the game ship looking similar to this in the first place?).
Now, exploration was nuts... that's a given. The land area wasn't overwhelmingly huge... not compared to a MMO anyways... but it was PACKED with locations... most of which you had to stumble into. Truly, Morrowind was an explorer's dream.
Alchemy was definitely impressive. For providing world information ... Morrowind was king until Guild Wars and World of Warcraft. That's a long time at the top. And even still, Morrowind is king when it comes to the sheer number of reading materials in the game.
Morrowind has a tendancy to end up back on my hard drive a bit... every once in a while I'll get the impulse, reinstall, redownload all the graphic and sound mods, ramp a character to level 20, and then wonder what the hell I was thinking. I've probably spent more time in a game I didn't particularly find 'fun' than I have in a lot of favorites. Perhaps that's a part of my dislike... a feeling that 'this could be better' without being able to fully articulate it.
Perhaps Oblivion will get rid of that feeling. I hope so.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:23 pm |
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crpgnut
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 197
Location: St. Louis |
@EverythingXen: I have to agree with the naming of every NPC. Not only did they decide to name each one, they picked total gibberish for the majority of the names! I'm really hoping they don't do this in Oblivion.
The way you feel about Morrowind is the way I feel about Gothic. I keep loading it up on my hard drive, play it for 20 hours, and then wonder why I bothered. The story has never grabbed me and I hate the NPCs. I don't want to solve their problems. I think they deserve to be here and need to die. If I could take the King's side and kill everyone to earn my freedom, I'd enjoy it more 
I'll admit that the first thing I do whenever I load up Morrowind is install the best graphics mods available. The reason Gothic and Morrowind don't look as well as what unpaid fans came up with might be as simple as space and minimum spec requirements. Morrowind crushed all but high-end machines when it first came out. If they had made it as pretty as the modders did, only the gaming elite could have ran the game. It probably wouldn't have fit on one cd either
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'nut |
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:05 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Well, actually... several times in Gothic if an NPC annoyed me enough I murdered them. My guy deserved prison, I guess.
I see the point about graphical quality. Do the graphical mods really place that much extra strain on the system? I know the massive 'increase all textures to 512' one does place a strain on things... but what about the better/smoother bodies and head mods? (Though if you run them alone the people look better than the scenary, which gives the game an 'un-even' look.)
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:29 pm |
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