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Erb Duchenne
Slayer
Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 987
Location: malaysia |
What exactly is an RPG? I know it means Role Playing Game. But in Jedi Knight you're playing the role of Kyle Katarn and in Tomb Raider, you're playing Lara Croft. But those aren't RPGs are they?
Do RPG's have to have scrolls and spells and magic potions? What about Heretic II? That's got magic and potions and stuff. And Thief?
What are your answers? |
Sat Jun 08, 2002 5:45 pm |
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DzD
Unknown
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 7140
Location: Sweden |
I was also thinking about asking that question.
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There once was a youngster, DzD
Whose avatars numbered infinity
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His latest, a hit
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Written by - dteowner |
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 5:47 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
There is no hard and fast definition of what contitutes an RPG as differentiated from another game type (such as adventure or FPS for example). With that said, there are some loosely held features that a game SHOULD have (to some extent or other) to be considered an rpg. It should have a progressive storyline and that storyline should be (at least) modified by the actions of the central character (you). Further, the game should incorporate some sort of system that allows for the character to advance in capabilities (either by level change, skill advancement or other). A good rpg also allows a player to create and/or play more than one personality (role) and a good rpg also is designed so that game play in part or whole is in some "significant" way different when one plays different roles (for instance, the game shoudl play differently for a thief as opposed to a melee character).
The closer to these requirements a game gets, the closer it is to properly being termed a roleplay game (rpg).
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When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 5:57 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
I think the thing that makes a roleplaying what it is can be summed up in the leveling and skill system. As you progress through a story you also see your character progress and improve. You don't see that in action and adventure games. Another big aspect is how you can affect your environment. You can be good or evil. You can beat someone up, talk or bribe. You have choices. In fact, now that I think of it that's the biggest aspect in RPGs. Choices.
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 6:00 pm |
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Moonslash
Celestial Guardian
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 1378
Location: California, USA |
I think an RPG game is a game where you play as a character who interacts with the surrounding realistically. What ever you do will affect the rest of the story. And you get to set up your character whatever way you want to. One thing important about RPG games is that, like strategy games, you need to "think" deeply in order to solve various problems and finish the game. It's not like brutal action games where you just violently search and destroy.
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Things are neither completely bright nor dark.
Do you go right? Or do you go left? A simple decision, yes? No ambiguities. Only the dream of the path not taken! And so one might stand in this place and contemplate for a long while. What will I miss if I go left? What will I lose if I go right? And in my indecision, have I chosen a worse fate? |
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Sat Jun 08, 2002 6:14 pm |
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Beo
Space Defender
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 542
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What the above said plus...
It is very important to give your character a "personality". Be it good or evil, then bahave and act on appropriately. |
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 12:51 am |
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Northchild
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 232
Location: New York, USA |
Great topic!
I became addicted to games around 1980, but I became a real basket case around '86 when The Bard's Tale was released. BT didn't offer a hell of a lot in the way of gameplay choices, playing good and evil, different ways of progressing with the story, and so on. What it did do well was something that Val mentioned earlier: You could see your characters gain strength, and you could develop your characters in many different ways.
In my book, a game that focuses on these things is an RPG. Regular in-game plot choices are the stuff of choose-your-own-adventure novels... choosing to play a warrior/mage who concentrates skill advancement in light armor is the stuff of RPGs. |
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 4:35 am |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
<set purist=true>
There are no true RPGs for computers/consoles. They still lack the immersion and interaction that a good pen&paper-rpg with a good group can create. Although newer games come close to that (Morrowind, hopefully NWN), most so-called CRPGs are just dumb hack'n'slash with minimal RPG factor (Diablo 2, Dungeon Siege)
<set purist=false>
In addition to the things posted abouve, one thing that defines a CRPG is the interaction between the player and other characters in the game (and by interaction I don't mean chopping undead to pieces with the +10 majik sword you found  )
Interactive dialogue and general NPC behaviour are the only things (with the exception of character developement) that truly define a CRPG. |
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 4:09 pm |
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Gomez The Mad
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 304
Location: Camp of Old |
@mDrop Interactive dialogue and general NPC behaviour are the only things (with the exception of character developement) that truly define a CRPG you say?
Well Gothic has all of that.I agree that games like Diablo 2 and Dungeon Siege don't quite fit the description of what an RPG "should" be. Just because you kill things and see your stat bars raise doesn't mean anything.But Gothic.......it may just be the closest thing to a true, good, RPG that you will find on a computer.Or any other console for that matter.It actually has a world (or confined area of land acting as a prison) to explore, and most NPC's have distinct and different personalities.These two aspects are what, for me, seperate Gothic from all other RPG's.
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Mon Jun 10, 2002 4:34 am |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
I haven't played Gothic that much (yet  ), but from what I've read, the interaction between player and NPCs is quite good. But I've also read that the plot is quite linear, don't know about the quests though. I'll have to play it more to form my own opinion, just got it a few days ago.
Which brings me to a point I forgot to mention in the previous post: options and non-linear plot.
A good CRPG contains different paths to take and lets you solve the quests and missions in a way that suits your character. Don't know about gothic, but Morrowind and older games, such as Fallout 1&2 let you play to game the way you want. Although you still have to fight a bit, most of the game can be completed in a non-violent manner. I've always enjoyed playing thieves and mages, who rely more on illusion, charisma and stealth to solve problems. In pen&paper, it it easy with a good game master, but in computer games I have to make some alterations to my style.
I'm starting to rant now, but the main point is: in addition to good interaction the game has to be non-linear and offer the chance to play the plot the way you want.
And speakin of interaction, Fallout and Arcanum have quite good interaction and realistic NPCs too. The NPCs in Morrowind are too generic and the lack of daily routines breaks the illusion somewhat, but the open-endedness and variety of solutions to problems compensates enough. And when you think the amount of NPCs in MW and the fact that they can be related to a huge number of interfering quests that the player may or may not take, it would be extremely difficult to design the system so that they can be found at all times. Not impossible, but difficult and the effort to make it work would have surely reduced the time to plan out the various plots and overall story.
I've had little to none hardware issues or bugs with Morrowind. If it would have bugged on my rig, as it has on many others, I'm sure my view of the game would be a less forgiving one, more faults would have tilted my view from the over-positive one I have now  |
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Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:37 am |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
To me, if my character's stats change then it's a CRPG.
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Mon Jun 10, 2002 12:35 pm |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
quote:
Originally posted by Gig
To me, if my character's stats change then it's a CRPG.
<Begin arrogant purist flame>
So, if you can shoot in a game, then it must be a FPS, right 
<End arrogant purist flame>
RPG means role-playing game, so I'd like to think there should be atleast a tiny bit of playing a role included
I think we should create a new genre for SRG: stats-rising game
And maybe a NSCD2CG for not-so-creative Diablo 2-clone games |
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Mon Jun 10, 2002 1:37 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
Part of the problem (besides the obvious which is that a hard definition of crpg does not exist and is likely impossible) is that manufacturers (for a variety of reasons) focus on what the computer does easily and is relatively easy to code - making statistics change in one way or another (level change, practice, etc.). This is simple number crunching programming and so makers of crpgs focus on this.
What is VERY difficult is AI for the npcs in the game and a truly non-linear, multi-threaded, complex (but not too complex for the lazy players in most of us ) storyline. Face it - most movies are abysmal because good scripts are hard to come by - and once a "good" script is found, executing it within a variety of real world constraints is nigh impossible. And so, just like movies, good scripts are very, very hard to come by for games and they are even harder to execute so that the game is playable by more than a small handful of enthusiasts.
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When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Mon Jun 10, 2002 1:51 pm |
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Erb Duchenne
Slayer
Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 987
Location: malaysia |
Hmm, interesting views.
I kinda' liked the set character you start with in Gothic. Then you develop your character in-game towards a mage, warrior or ranger. Kinda' like real life. You can't choose who you are, but you are who you make yourself to be. But it seems like this is not very RPG-like from this discussion.
Also, the story is too linear. Although it seems like you have three paths, OC, NC or Sect... apart from the uniform you wear (and minor stuff) everything unfolds the same way. Towards the end, no matter what camp you joined you'd probably end up wearing the ore armor and wielding the uriziel.
These seem to be very unRPGlike. The questions is... what are the main points which make Gothic more RPGlike than other RPGs out there? |
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Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:26 am |
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