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Dorkus
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Jun 2002
Posts: 11
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| Controlling attributes, critical chance, and skills |
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I posted this on another board, but i thought I'd post it here as well.
Ok, I just did some testing with a samurai against a pack of 6 juggernauts (good for testing because they have a TON of hp). I used a save game editor to hack a level 20-something samurai equal in EVERY RESPECT except senses. Both had 100 in swords, dual weapons, critical chance, and close combat. The ONLY difference was that one had 45 in senses, and the other was maxed at 100. The below data reflect the NUMBER OF HITS to reaching an instant kill:
High senses:
8 32 36 17 1 39 55 13 17 2 9 1 6 59 10 5 17 22 4
Total: 19/353 = 0.0538
Low senses:
7 2 2 45 1 4 3 128 11 26 22 42 23 35 10 4
Total: 17/385 = 0.0441
Given that we have a pretty extreme outlier in the second sample (128... I waited a LONG time for that one), I don't think it's at ALL implausible to assert that senses has NO effect on critical chance.
So, in essence, SENSE is USELESS for the critical fighter, and all of these builds that suggest that you build up senses need to seriously rethink their stat progression!
(On another note, I'm VERY disappointed in the max rate of critical hit. 1 out of 20 is dismally low -- I'd much rather pump close combat to 50 for the extra attack, or dual wield for the secondary attacks.... heck, i'd rather pump mythology so i can see the # of hitpoints on the monsters!) |
Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:47 pm |
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Guest
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Great, did you also record how many swings between hits? (does SEN help %to hit, as the first controlling factor of Close and Ranged combat?)
Or how about #of Lightning Strikes within your hits? What were they swinging? |
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Wed Jun 12, 2002 8:08 pm |
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Dorkus
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Jun 2002
Posts: 11
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Let me describe the data a bit better:
Each number above is the number of SUCCESSFUL hits it took for me to reach a critical hit. For example, the first number 8 means that I got my first critical on my 8th HIT. Now this samurai was pumped so high that he rarely missed (maybe 1 out of 15 or so), but I did NOT count misses (this should not make a difference statistically, since I did not count misses for BOTH of the samurai).
The samurai were both wielding an enchanted katana in the primary hand, and a regular Wakizashi in the secondary hand. IIRC, she had 3 swings and 2 attacks for primary, and 2 swings and 2 attacks for secondary. None of this should make a difference in critical chance, of course. |
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Wed Jun 12, 2002 8:13 pm |
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Dorkus
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Jun 2002
Posts: 11
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Repost from another board (number 2  )
(Note: Avenstar from the other board asserted that attributes have NO EFFECT on skills other than to improve the speed at which they increase through practice)
Assuming the data in that post [Note: ie my post above] is generalizable to other skills, it seems that avenstar is exactly right -- "controlling attributes" means ONLY that the attribute increases the speed at which a skill improves by PRACTICE. It DOES NOT mean that the attribute affects the power or effectiveness of the skill.
So, for example, it seems likely that intelligence does nothing for a bard's music, other than increasing the rate at which the music skill increases (pointless, since music is easy to train). Which ALSO means that building a bard with intelligence is close to pointless -- I'd much rather pump the points into STR and DEXTERITY and give the guy a sword. |
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Wed Jun 12, 2002 8:15 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote:
Originally posted by Dorkus
So, for example, it seems likely that intelligence does nothing for a bard's music, other than increasing the rate at which the music skill increases (pointless, since music is easy to train). Which ALSO means that building a bard with intelligence is close to pointless -- I'd much rather pump the points into STR and DEXTERITY and give the guy a sword.
An interesting thought. I've always wondered what maxxing INT on my bard really accomplished, since powercast was useless. Perhaps the truth of it is "nothing".
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Wed Jun 12, 2002 9:05 pm |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
Did you try to test intelligence for other things, i.e. such as lockpicking, engineering and close/ranged combat? These are skills specifically associated with intelligence per the manual. (Yes I know music was too, but music may be a little harder to quantify for what I'm about to ask.) Take 2 identical characters other than IQ, and see if they perform the same. For example, take your 2 equivalent samurai and vary only intelligence to see if it matters with respect to damage. I'd be very disappointed if you're correct and that intelligence only helps improves all skills generally and that the manual is misleading.
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The world itself shifts and changes and fades to mist like the strings of a minstrel's harp, and mayhap the dreams we forge are more enduring than the works of kings and gods.-Robert E. Howard
=Member of the RPGDot Shadows, The Nonflamers' Guild, and The Alliance of Middle Earth= |
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Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:02 am |
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Dorkus
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Jun 2002
Posts: 11
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See my post re testing results.
I don't think the manual is misleading. Just VERY VERY vague. BGII's manual was much better. But Bioware had a lot more time and money to get BGII out than Sir-Tech had with Wiz 8. Too bad, Sir-tech, IMO, is probably the more innovative company. They design better games than anyone (JA 2, anyone?), but their games are seriously lacking in polish. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 1:50 am |
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