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Consoles, not PC, are actually doomed.
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RPGDot Forums > Absolutely Off Topic

Am I right?
yes
56%
 56%  [ 13 ]
no
43%
 43%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 23

Author Thread
jmurdock
Old Fogey
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Ammon777 is definitely on to something. You should have put that option on the poll. Didn't think about the age/market thing. A lot of things are like that. Many 'older' technologies exist still today because there are drawbacks to newer ones. To some people, 'older' technologies are preferable to some people. So, Ammon777 is probably right in saying neither pc nor console will supplant the other.
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Post Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:34 pm
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Roqua
High Emperor
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Joined: 02 Sep 2003
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Location: rump
   

quote:
Originally posted by jmurdock
Ammon777 is definitely on to something. You should have put that option on the poll. Didn't think about the age/market thing. A lot of things are like that. Many 'older' technologies exist still today because there are drawbacks to newer ones. To some people, 'older' technologies are preferable to some people. So, Ammon777 is probably right in saying neither pc nor console will supplant the other.


I disagree. I am saying that PC will replace the console by home networking. Still owning a console like ammon says would be like having a childrens dvd player hooked up to the same tv as a regular dvd player. Kids watch kids movies on regular dvds, and will play kids games (or simple games) on the home network.

With home networking you will be able to play video games on your TV in your living room while sitting on your sofa, eating twinkies and drinking a buttery nipple, with a wireless controller in your hand listening to 7.1 sorround sound kick out phat jams by fifty cent and britney spears through musicmatch jukebox from your HOME NETWORK..

The home network will perform the same function a console would, except it will be based off of a PC, not a console. Your PC will be in a whole other room, your big ass TV will be in your living room or other preferred console playing area. Through the use of a wireless home network you will be able to emulate the functions and possitives of a console through your networking PC...like my computer at work consists of only a monitor, mouse, and keyboard. I have no box. There is one box I think that has all the apps and programs on it that show up on my screen and everyone elses computerless monitor. The technolgy is there. This is not about kids or couches. This is about evolution and redundancy. Why buy something that you already have. Developers can develope simple, console like games for your homenetwork. You don't need a console for a simple game. You don't need to sit at a computer desk to play games when your TV is part of your home network.
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Post Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:27 am
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
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Then these home wireless network systems will replace consoles and computers? Maybe, but the computer will still remain there. The computer is still the backbone of the system. What you're describing might be the future of consoles, but its not the future of computer systems. Sure, you will have simple gameplay on those systems. Im fairly sure they will happen. Actually, they already have them for the wealthy, though it will take a long while for them to become commonplace systems (or affordable). But that doesnt make it way better than the computer.

I dont understand what exactly Roqua disagrees with. If you are saying that these home networks are the future of consoles, then i understand. Sure, they will be cool entertainment systems, if they are kept simple for the user, that is. Extremely simple, because not many people have the patience or the knowledge to even set them up correctly. If they were plug-n-play i can imagine they would be more popular with people than the computer systems themselves. But the catalyst here is still the computer. Consoles are a by-product from computers...

EDIT 1 -- i realize now what you are saying, that PCs will replace the console. that might happen, too. My position is that PCs wont be replaced by the consoles, either that or each will still have its place. I think we have had a mixup of viewpoints here. might be my mistake, if it is, then sorry.

continued -- ...Anyway, good points. I just dont see what you are in disagreement with, since i am not in disagreement with your points. I was disagreeing with the notion that consoles will overrun computer technology, which isnt going to happen.


Last edited by Ammon777 on Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:42 am
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Ammon777
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also, dont you think that the keyboard and mouse are indespensible? how are you going to use those two universal input devices when you are on your couch? i have tried to hold the keyboard on my lap and type. it just wasnt comfortable. my cat would sit on the thing, i would move too much. i would have to try to balance it while typing. keyboarding is meant for desktops, and so is the mouse. HOWEVER, if they could come up with something better, like some kind of electronic glove with sensors or maybe a real voice interface (which isnt long in coming, ive seen one), then we wouldnt even need a desktop, and the system you're describing would be awesome. But it wont replace computers that use the old traditional ways completely. There will always be people, like me, that prefer to type. I dont like talking.

EDIT -- ohhh you are saying that PC will replace the console through home networking... sorry i didnt realize that earlier. Yes, i agree. I am for that. the PC should replace the console, and the console should be thrown in the trash, in my opinion. So i agree, although i have a different perspective.
Post Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:49 am
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Roqua
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Yes, exactly. Home networking will be done through computers. The controller, instead of a mouse and keyboard, is just an example of how consoles will not be needed and will just be a function of your PC based home network.

You can play a console-like video game on your pc through the network which will display it on your tv in your living room. Your stereo, TV, wirless controller and everything else will be connected through the wirless home network. I will probably always play on the computer itself because I am a dork and like it. I can handle the old NES controller and the SNES is pushing it, I am controller-challenge now with the 50-button controllers. PC will replace the console, because having a console will be redundant.
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Post Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:39 am
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MageofFire
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@Gorath- But if a console game does have problems, you can't fix it with a patch. And who says that online console gaming is perfect? Besides, there are PCs with wireless gamepads/joysticks/mouse-and-keyboards. There is nothing consoles have or will have that PCs don't or won't.
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Post Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:27 am
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Everclearules20
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I agree as well. I *think* Bill Gates (who would have thought?) already has something like this at his house, or atleast something similar.
Post Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:51 am
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Hexy
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Joined: 28 Jun 2002
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quote:

But if a console game does have problems, you can't fix it with a patch. And who says that online console gaming is perfect? Besides, there are PCs with wireless gamepads/joysticks/mouse-and-keyboards. There is nothing consoles have or will have that PCs don't or won't.



I think consoles will always be more simple and bug-free compared to PC games, mostly because PCs has such varying hardware/software which can become quite a hassle. Which is why consoles will probably always appeal to a younger and less tech-interested crowd.
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Post Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:16 am
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fatBastard()
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While I agree with the technological superiority of the PC over the consoles, you guys are forgetting something. Betamax was also superior to VHS in almost every aspect yet VHS was the first to have porno movies for sales and that was the end of Betamax (there were of course other factors involved but the porno movies was a major contributor to the downfall of Betamax).

Someone previously mentioned that most blockbuster hits were FPS games ... perhaps, but only by PC standards. If a PC games sell 500k copies it is a huge success but if a console game sells the same amount, it is considered a failure. Recent numbers indicate that 90% of games handed over the counter are console games.

Even if we disregard the financial aspects and focus on the games themselves, we PC gamers have a problem. One thing is making a great, innovative game, another thing is getting it published. I think most of here are pretty pissed at ATARI for just sitting on "The Night of the Raven" expansion to Gothic2 and refusing to release it. I'm also pretty certain that many of us have written of Interplay when the axed Black Isle Studios. Perhaps there is even someone as old a me who remember when Origin actually DID create worlds and therefore also remember what happened when EA took over. Anyone remember CORE? They actually DID make pretty good games when they were allowed to choose the what and the how and the when but EIDOS "made" squirt out one Tomb Radier clone after another until the proverbial lemon long since had shed it's last drop.

With huge publishers like EA, EIDOS, ATARI, etc. sitting so heavily on the publishing market as they do, there is bound to be more focus on making money than making quality games (long live capitalism ). Haven't you all noticed how games are getting shorter and shorter? One of the most criticized aspects of DE:IW is the dumbing down of the gameplay, yet it is also a LOT shorter than the original.

All in all it is more profitable for publishers to focus on console games because they sell more copies, they have a shorter production time (due to shorter games, simplified gameplay AND only 1 possible hardware configuration) and, let's not forget, once a console game has gone gold, it is done. No technical support is necessary, no need to allocate ressources to patch development and everyone can go on to the next scam, erm I mean game.

Let me make this perfectly clear: I would dance a dance of joy if the consoles all suffer a horrible and agonizing death ... however, they way things are going right now I think the real question is: Will the industry be able to recover once they realize that their singleminded focus on crappy console games comes back to bite them in the rear end when the gamers get fed up with their crappy games.

The PC may be far superior to the consoles but unless billy boy gets his way with the Paladium enslavement concept, I'm afraid I can't see how the money loving bastards at EA, EIDOS etc, can be persuaded to give the low profit PC game developers an equal oportunity.
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Post Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:25 am
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jmurdock
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But PC's aren't going away for sure. Unlike Betamax, PC's can be used for other than a boat anchor. PC's can control your doors, your alarms, your phone, whatever you want to make an automated house. All I'm saying in this rant is eventually the PC will be integrated in the house. Consoles might still exist for a younger crowd, but wireless networking will make gaming off of the home PC a lot easier than going downstairs to use the console. I mean can you network consoles?
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Post Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:32 pm
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fatBastard()
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I agree. The PC *CAN* fulfill the needs you describe ... however, it would be a lot more profitable for the companies to make you buy a thingy for each purpose (one for the lights, one for the curtains, one for the fridge etc) and that's even taking into account that you actually BUY the software/hardware. All the talk about software piracy is also a LOT more common regarding PC programs/games than console games (though it is equally possible on consoles). That is where the Paladium comes into play.

If M$ manages to push the Paladium integration in Longhorn down the consumers throat without the majority choking to death, then they will get the same kind of control/profit scheme working on the PC that Sony, M$ and Nintendo already have with their respective consoles. That would probably mean a huge boost in PC software/games ... with the simple price of clasping on the manacles and turning all control of your computer over to MicroSoft.

If the Paladium concept fails (which I most sincerely hope will be the case) then we're back to our present situation where it is not profitable to make games/programs to PCs. Given the heated discussions in the US regarding whether it should be legal for TIVO owners to be able skip commercials or not, I just can't find enough faith to believe that the automated house will be controllable from a profitless PC rather than from the "XboxX: Now as big and as expensive as a genuine PC but without the extra processing power".

I tend to have a rather bleak view on things, but I prefer to be pleasantly surprised than disappointed yet again, so hopefully I'm just being overly pessimistic
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Post Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:14 pm
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RPG Frog
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Great Speech! Too bad it's all future and not NOW!

This debate will never end. It's a PC fanboy debate. I am a hardcore gamer as are all my friends. We are in our 20s. We play both PC & console games. But, what you want we already have with our cheap consoles...

We can play co-op or XBOX live with voice chat on any network game for our console. We regularly play 4 to 16 player games with our friends who live in other cities, it's like being in the same room. This with 5.1 sound cranking through our stereo with beautiful graphics on an HDTV. And all of this while kicking back on the couch. Every network game on Xbox supports voice chat using the same ID for EVERY game. This includes invites across games by different publishers. Not using extra software like on the PC. All this on a $180.00 console. We also do LAN parties (PC) but this really sucks compared to xbox live. We are playing the next 5 years of gaming NOW. Not 2 or 3 years from now. PC gaming SUCKS compared to this. Racing, Fighting, and action games are HORRIBLE on PC. RPGs and First person shooters are great on PC. Most people who only play PC games have no hand-eye coordination and completely suck at games in general. Try Ninja Gaiden(Xbox) on a HDTV...you'll NEVER play an action game this badass on your PC.

I really gather that many of you have no IDEA just how good networking is on consoles NOW. I get free levels for my games on Xbox. I’ll take these free levels over fan-made mods any day. I can only imagine what consoles will be like with PS3 & XBOX2 using 3 processors and flash-memory hard-drives that don’t even exist yet. Gaming will probably exceed PCs then…when you start using 720p and 1080i HDTV resolutions for everything. And besides, I’ll take a lower resolution and better gameplay experience on a huge TV anyday.

You are right, computers will replace consoles. But for at least the next 5 - 7 years consoles are here to stay.

Have fun playing games by yourself, sitting 6 inches away from your tiny monitor, lugging all your PC equipment for LAN parties, and buying a new video-card everytime a new game comes out.
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Post Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:59 am
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Everclearules20
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quote:
Originally posted by kengo2019
Have fun playing games by yourself

Someone hasn't heard of MMORPG's...

quote:
Originally posted by kengo2019
I get free levels for my games on Xbox. I’ll take these free levels over fan-made mods any day.

You have not seen fan based mods. I've played a few of them, and made a few minor ones myself, and they're much more than just a free level (those are numerous enough on PC's anyways). Go see the Fan Based mods for Baldur's Gate II, Morrowind, Unreal Tournament, Dungeon Siege, Half Life, etc... Find some Total Conversions, those are much better than any level...

quote:
Originally posted by kengo2019
... sitting 6 inches away from your tiny monitor ...

As for the Tiny monitors, I've got a 50 dollar video card that will plug into a TV, though I havn't tried it yet; so your TV excuse doesn't work for me...

quote:
Originally posted by kengo2019
... buying a new video-card everytime a new game comes out.


In all honesty, an ATI Radeon 9800 is going to outlast a console system. My system, about 5 years old, with very minor upgrades (less than 300 dollars), has been able to run all the recent games atleast decently. How many consoles have there been in the last 5 years? Regardless, my 50 dollar video card (Geforce 4 if you had to know) isn't even the problem... it's my 5 year old processor... Sure you hear alot about upgrading video cards, but it's from people who havn't had their system upgraded since the N64...

quote:
Originally posted by kengo2019
I can only imagine what consoles will be like with PS3 & XBOX2 using 3 processors and flash-memory hard-drives that don’t even exist yet.

Let me give you a hint, same gameplay, better graphics. There's only so much you can do with a gamepad compared to a keyboard and mouse...

quote:
Originally posted by kengo2019
Most people who only play PC games have no hand-eye coordination and completely suck at games in general.

Of course, people who have never used a gamepad will not be able to use it as well as someone who has used it countless times... Now try playing FPS's against PC users and you'll quickly find out we've got pretty good hand eye coordination...

You also forgot to mention that PC's have strategy games, whereas consoles don't (the ones I saw where no where close to the PC's). Those are also really fun multiplayer...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm really getting the impression you have never really played PC games enough to compare them to consoles...

Enough of my rant, but what is being said of networks, is that our homes will be controlled by computers... It's like the things you see on cars nowadays, except for in every room... tell it to turn on a light, and the light turns on, tell it to play ____ song, and it plays it, etc... No, consoles do not have that, and never will; that's PC territory.
Post Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:52 am
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
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@kengo2019, who is the fan boy?

quote:
Most people who only play PC games have no hand-eye coordination and completely suck at games in general


Oh, please! Are we supposed to take this seriously?
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Post Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:53 am
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MageofFire
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@kengo2019- HDTV can in no way match an ATI Radeon 9800 XT. Oh, and PCs can be hooked up to the HDTV and Stereo for better sound and a bigger screen. Never thought of that, did you? PC LAN parties still pwn your XBOX parties, I'm afraid I just had to say that. Oh, and though you may have new levels, fan-made mods are a hell of a lot bigger and usually better. Take BF 1942's Desert Combat mod for instance. You would never get that on an XBOX.
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Post Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:19 pm
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