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| Your favorite RPG |
| Morrowind |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
| Gothic / Gothic 2 |
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29% |
[ 5 ] |
| Neverwinter Nights |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Unspecified MMORPG |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Other |
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58% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 17 |
dteowner
Shoegazer

Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote: Originally posted by Hexy
Having played many old and new games, I can honestly say that new games > old games almost always. And that's not only because of graphics.
To each his own opinion.
OTOH, I think if someone were able to really break down man-hours in old games versus new games (you'd have to use man-hour percentages since development teams are so much bigger these days), I'd bet money that the percentage of labor devoted to gameplay issues and story issues has declined as the percentage devoted to graphics has skyrocketted.
Try a different angle. Think about the reviews for Morrowind. (Although the game never grabbed me, I'll admit that it's a fine game) What's the first thing each and every review talked about? Addictive gameplay? Uniquely creative story? Excellent interface? Nope. Pretty water.
I've got close to 10 years of Computer Gaming World magazine now. It's quite interesting to read some of the old reviews and notice what things they talked about most and which things they considered most important when doing a review. I'll give you a hint- graphics and sound usually didn't make the first paragraph. _________________ =Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:32 pm |
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piln
High Emperor


Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 906
Location: Leeds, UK |
quote: Originally posted by Hexy
...Graphics does enhance the gaming experiance in many cases, just compare Daggerfall/Arena with Morrowind...
Well, I would say Morrowind is the weakest link in that chain. I know a lot of Elder Scrolls fans found it disappointing after Daggerfall, and I personally thought it took several steps backwards in terms of gameplay. But that's just my taste.
I totally agree with what you say about System Shock's control scheme (and for what it's worth, Warren Spector agrees with you too ), that's why I hope TSSHP is a success. I don't think it has bad graphics though... I believe quality of artwork is far more important than any technical issues, and having re-played a bit of SS recently I can say that the artists' efforts at creating a disturbing, atmospheric environment have stood the test of time well. Gotta disagree about the story too. The basic premise was simple, but that is not a fault in itself, and the way information was imparted to the player throughout the course of the game was handled with Looking Glass' usual skill. In fact, looking back, I honestly think it was their best work in terms of storytelling. All IMO, of course
I don't believe graphics are always completely superficial - used properly, they are very powerful for creating atmosphere & mood; same goes for sound (perhaps even moreso). But I think it's rare that they are used properly, and again this is entirely down to artisitc skill and has nothing to do with technology (examples: System Shock 2 and both Thief games - they all used an engine technically inferior to the Quake & Unreal engines at the time, but IMO they still had more interesting and atmospheric visuals).
I think dteowner has hit the nail on the head. The focus on eye-candy is ridiculously out-of-proportion. It is detracting from other important areas of development, and this is a sign of the immaturity of the games industry in general. How often have you sat through cut-scenes with voice-acting so abysmal you wouldn't expect to hear it on a local radio commercial? Or endured awful scripts and wholly unoriginal storylines, written by members of the dev team with no literary skill? This is the norm for today's games, and it's all because graphics take such a disproportionate chunk of the budget. It's easy to blame this on publisher pressure, but in truth many developers are just into the flashy stuff too. Hopefully the increasing use of middleware for technical things like graphics and physics will allow more resources for the creative aspects (which IMO are entirely responsible for a game's quality). |
Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:29 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer

Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote: Originally posted by piln
I think dteowner has hit the nail on the head.
Was there any doubt?
quote: Originally posted by piln
This is the norm for today's games, and it's all because graphics take such a disproportionate chunk of the budget. It's easy to blame this on publisher pressure, but in truth many developers are just into the flashy stuff too.
I don't think you can lay the infatuation with pretty pictures completely on the developers' doorstep. How many times have you seen reviews or board posts saying a game is simply too ugly to play? A game accused of having dated graphics is sure to keep hordes of shallow gamers from buying it, regardless of whether it's fun to play or not (M&M series -pre MM9- anyone? Wiz8 anyone?) _________________ =Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
Fri Jun 20, 2003 11:15 pm |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life

Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Try the Spiderware games: Avernum, Geneforge, etc. Kncked for their graphics, but fantastic gameplay. _________________ If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Fri Jun 20, 2003 11:57 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor


Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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For Morrowind and the other Elder Scrolls games, sure, Morrowind had dumbed down RP, skills and dialogue...
but, on the other hand, aside from graphics, it had better combat, combat skills and a MOD BUILDER (a nice little thing some NEW GAMES have, further enhancing gameplay in many levels).
SS had worse frickin' graphics than frickin' Doom, even though it was released later. And I really enjoyed beeing able to hit mutants/cyborgs from halfway across the room/halway.
Just like graphics, gameplay is NOT what makes a game. Its a symbiosis. Both can enhance or decrease the gaming experiance. _________________ Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:25 am |
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Pelican_kisser
Village Dweller

Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1
Location: Whittier CA |
I got really hooked on the “Arc the Lad Collection” that came out on PS1....it was actually released as a collection from a series that was HOT in japan.....The new one is supposed to be even better and will get even more addicting than the first.... |
Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:32 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon

Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Too many threads with the same topic! _________________ Moderator on RPGdot.com Forum.
Member of the Nonflamers guild.
Member of the Sport fan club. |
Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:11 am |
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