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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
| More trouble brewing at Black Isle? Van Buren canned? |
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Chris Avellone, who played considerable role in creating Fallout, Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment and the upcomming Van Buren project (Fallout 3) has resigned from Black Isle?
The news came from DuckAndCover.
Anyone got detail list of people leaving BIS over the years?. |
Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:17 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
Yes, it's a pity to lose his talent and BIS seems to have a high turnover - but it's not really too surprising given the only title they've shipped for quite some while is IWD2 which they weren't too enthused about.
Still, people leave companies all the time and I can't see any evidence that Van Buren has been cancelled. Why would it? JE is still there driving the game mechanics as far as we know and the engine was already built for Jefferson.
It's also interesting to see some of the responses. Obviously most people are sad to see him go but you don't have to look too hard to find a small group of hardcore Fallout fans who didn't want Avellone running FO3 in the first place (didn't want him to "turn it into PS:T" or criticisms of his hand in FO2 like New Reno). |
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Sat Jun 14, 2003 1:54 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Haven't seen this on the RPGDot news page? I'm a little surprised. I love his work. I consider him a genius. He will be sorely missed. Where's he going? I'd think Troika might be a possibility!!
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Sat Jun 14, 2003 3:10 am |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
Yes, it's a pity to lose his talent and BIS seems to have a high turnover - but it's not really too surprising given the only title they've shipped for quite some while is IWD2 which they weren't too enthused about.
All is doomy & gloomy at BlackIsle/Interplay forums this day. Josh said that the sales of IWD 2 is considerable lower than BG: Dark Alliance.
Their publisher, Interplay is still in chronic financial trouble. And the Interplay's parent company, Titus, also not in better position. Gameindustry.biz reported:
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Titus renegotiates debts, but cashflow problems loom
Rob Fahey 14:53 11/06/2003
Parent company of Interplay and Virgin escapes bankruptcy, but isn't out of the woods yet.
Financial constraints have delayed the release of a number of titles from the publisher, which in turn has led to a slump in revenues - figures for the first half of 2002/03 showed a 70 per cent decline in revenue. The company recorded a 72.2 million Euro loss in the first half as a result.
Already Titus has attempted to rescue this situation by stripping the assets of its subsidiaries - just about every key franchise owned by Interplay has now been sold. The road ahead looks difficult for Titus, with apparently insufficient cash to release titles or fund further development, and no obvious financing routes open to it. Being bought out by a larger industry player looks like the best hope for the group - but whether it has anything worth buying is another question.
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Sat Jun 14, 2003 6:23 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Pity when you consider that some of the best games ever made came via BIS/Interplay, from Bards Tale to Fallout to PS-T with involvement in BG among many. I just hope they survive and recover.
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Sat Jun 14, 2003 6:55 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
@Corwin, I didn't post it as a newsbit because I'm not sure about it's news value (our news is generally centred around the games database, although there are obvious exceptions). I follow the BIS forums closely (as does Remus obviously and probably quite a few others) so it's clearly interesting to us but it isn't really game news.
The story was originally broken but Killzig from DAC who got the information firsthand so I trusted it from the beginning. It has since been confirmed by Magena from the BIS forums who received a confirmation email from Chris. Still, it's really a rumour (even though I know it's true) and people come and go in any industry. What about Darren Monahan or Chris Parker, who also left previously?
Anyway, let me know if you think I'm wrong.  |
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Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:52 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
I do disagree with it not being posted as a news item. To me, it is very important news concerning one of the major RPG companies in the world. Chris is not just any worker there, but one of the main creative minds behind many of their best games. I believe most RPG'ers would be interested in this news item and if I didn't read this forums everyday, I wouldn't have known about it. I rely on RPGDot for almost all my gaming news. I visit the Bioware and JoWood forums, but only infrequently. I haven't been to the BIS forums in months. I tend to visit sites who have a game I'm interested in just prior to release and BIS has nothing forthcoming. I wonder what others think.
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Sat Jun 14, 2003 12:41 pm |
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
Well it is hard to follow computer programmers lives around like rockstars.
I couldnt tell you based on any info what he did to contribute to any of those games you listed. He may have dont everything great, he may have done none of it as far as I know.
I think there will be a fallout 3 definitely. I bet it will be good but I cant be certain. It wouldnt really matter to me if no one who worked on the orignal game would be making it. It might be better that way.
If you get too attached to the names in the computer industry youll be waiting for fallout 9 from a 90 year old tim cain or some such. Perhaps that is a bad example.
But the truth is, someone who programmed computer games 10 years ago spent an enormous amount of education time learning to do something that is almost entirely worthless today. And its my experience that no one continues the education process again and again over a long carreer. How many games has richard Garriot or Sid Meyer developed lately? They are supervisors of young programmers now, that is the nature of that profession.
anyhow im sort of meandering lol.
I definitely noticed the same thing Corwin did, not only have they not made anything in a long time.... but before Icewind dale 2 they hadnt made anything in many years also. Other than I think console games.
But they sure do have a huge quantity of vaporware. And too many news bits actually for being years away from making anything.
Lionheart is their next upcoming title, but developed by a french company. |
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Sun Jun 15, 2003 8:51 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
I think you slightly misunderstand me. I'm not concerned about who programs a game, but who designs and creates one. Great creative minds are rare; how many can match Shakespeare? Chris is one such creative genius. PS-T was his work more than anyone elses. His touch is everywhere. Most people know my opinion of that game. Garriot still has some great games in him, if he'd get off the MMORPG bandwagon and get back to what he does well. Warren Spector, Doug Church, these men are brilliant; they made Deus Ex and many other greats. Yes, I have high regard for Tim Cain and his team too. I not only respect their work, I know that a game they develop will be good. Was Marvel Comics the same when Stan Lee left? No. Will BIS be the same? Not a chance. That's not criticising JES, he's good and one day, he'll be great. I like the guy, but he's not yet in the same league as Chris IMO!!
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Sun Jun 15, 2003 11:09 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by corwin
PS-T was his work more than anyone elses. His touch is everywhere.
Donīt be so sure about this. Wouldnīt it be illogical for Black Isle to hire the lead designer of the Realms of Arkania series specifically for PS:T and then have him only twiddle his thumbs? Especially if Guido Henkel was probably relatively expensive, due to an offer by Sir Tech (-->Wizardry 8 ) and the necessity to move from Germany to North America.
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Sun Jun 15, 2003 6:18 pm |
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
Well if he is the person who wrote all the written words, the book length dialogue and descriptions in planescape torment then hes brilliant I agree. I have a feeling though it was written by an actual fantasy writer. Its worth looking at the credits someday for me to try and associate what names with what.
Theres not nearly as much of that in fallout 2 ( which I have installed right now and still have never finished). It is more humor, sort of a parody of RPGs. |
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Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:04 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
I looked it up. The truth seems to be somewhere in the middle:
lead designer: Chris Avellone
producer: Guido Henkel
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Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:53 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Also remember, Henkel left BIS before the game was finished or released.
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If God said it, then that settles it!
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Mon Jun 16, 2003 7:51 am |
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Myrthos
Spoiler of All Fun
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 1926
Location: Holland |
quote:
Originally posted by the mighty stamar
Lionheart is their next upcoming title, but developed by a french company.
Unless Reflexive recently moved from the states to France it's still a US based company.
quote:
Originally posted by the mighty stamar
But the truth is, someone who programmed computer games 10 years ago spent an enormous amount of education time learning to do something that is almost entirely worthless today. And its my experience that no one continues the education process again and again over a long carreer. How many games has richard Garriot or Sid Meyer developed lately? They are supervisors of young programmers now, that is the nature of that profession.
There are many skills required in developing a game. Programming is only one of them. As in real life designing is the most daunting tasks and it's the designers we still remember. We hardly remember games because of their great programmers we remember them because of their great designers.
There are many designers who can program really well, but there are also who don't.
The point I want to make here is that designing side of games developing did not grow worthless over time. The major difference is that now things can be done that could not have been accomplished 10 years ago especially graphically and with the AI. There are countless games made a long time ago that are still good and solid RPG's. In many occasions these games are more RPG and more challenging than what is developed in these days. They do look a lot better though nowadays 
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Mon Jun 16, 2003 4:55 pm |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Thank you Myrthos, my point exactly.
_________________
If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:26 pm |
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