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Guest
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Gothic is no RPG. Baldurs Gate is an RPG. Planescape: Torment is an RPG.
I haven’t played Gothic though  but I don’t think an RPG can be good with that perspective or in 3D. It looks more like a Tomb Raider clone. And the story really doesn’t sound that appealing...
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Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:13 pm |
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Guest
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Gothic is okay... it has a decent plot and a cool world. I wouldn't compare it to Baldur's Gate though, certainly. BG and BG2 are epic games... Gothic took me 30 hours or so to finish whereas BG2 took me like 200.
BG2 is one of my all time favorite games whereas Gothic was just a fun game I played recently. |
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Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:23 pm |
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lildragon
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 31 Dec 2001
Posts: 116
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quote:
WHAT THE?! Damn , and I thought I was the MAN when I finished my 1st game with a mighty 118 str...and whats this about potions in mummie brains?...time to start up that third character and run through this again it seems
heheh search my friend and ye shall find  |
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Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:21 pm |
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Guest
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I also completed the game with a Strength value well over 200.
The mummies in Chap 6 have a TON of potions. You can "open" them like you would a chest, but they are not labled as anything (like a chest is labled "chest"...doh).
I think that the potions that are found in Chap 6 are a little overboard. After drinking them, I thought "jeez, how much Strengh am I going to need to complete this game?". If I replay this game, I'll probably only use the potions to reach 100 in each category rather than exceed it. |
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Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:22 pm |
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JemyM
Vault Dweller
Joined: 28 Nov 2001
Posts: 753
Location: Sweden |
Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 in all honor, but in the end, they are very linear and end up with killing monsters... You have little or no feel of the NPC's you encounter (even if the party NPC's where excellent in BG2) and you only speak to the few encounters that actually have unique names (wich would be about 7-15 per map, at best).
Also, Baldurs Gate 'locks you up' inside invisible barriers. You have simply no freedom in the game. You can only do what the programmers wanted you to do, wich brings you forward on a invicible red-carpet (linear).
Baldurs Gate is a 'stat-driven' story, just like Wizardry 8 and Diablo 2. Its about following a stright path, grabbing all the experience you find. You are not free to take alternative roads, becouse BG does not support that freedom.
Gothic is character-driven. Every option you take can be for good, or for evil, and no-one blames you if you take the evil path. Either you develop a feel for the NPC's you encounter, or you hate them. You are free to revenge the NPC's you hate, or help the NPC's you like. You develop yourself in just the path you like, instead of choosing from the beginning what you must be during the entire game (like "cleric" or "mage").
This freedom is often only encountered when you have a real-life Dungeon Master that accepts your actions, and forge the world around them... Its you who drive the world, not the opposite.
There is only one more game out there that does the same, and thats Fallout 2.
Thoose two are ROLE-PLAYING games... The rest are only a programmed set of dice with a good story that wraps it up.
Rainstorm
---------
> Quests are the same no matter how you play.
I cannot come up with a example of what you are refering to...
Quests does ALWAYS have the same result in ALL rpgs...
> You can't really change your char and play good/evil.
Did you even play the game? You have more possibilities in the world to play good and just OR evil and betraying (and get away with it)...
> Only one way to solve quests.
There are several ways to solve many quests, and some of theese extra ways will make a defenite impact on the story-flow of the game (deciding wich camp you will finally join up with).
Best Regards
JemyM
[ This Message was edited by: JemyM on 2002-01-14 17:08 ] |
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Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:54 pm |
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Guest
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OK OK so maybe you CAN get your strength over 200 but why would anyone want to? I'm playing as a mage in chapter 5 right now and I only have 55 strength. It only takes me 5 or 6 hits at the most to kill any creaure I come across. I'm using the Berserkers Word sword which only has a 60 something damage rating. I have to agree with the guy who said
that the designers put WAY too many stat boosting potions in the game. Why would anyone want to be so powerful that they could
just run through and kill almost everything with one hit? Where is the fun in that? The next time I play Gothic I'm gonna go as a fighter type character but I'm not going to allow my strength to go higher than 90-100 max. |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:54 am |
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Guest
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And the highest strength requirement to use any weapon is only 80 something anyways. |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:59 am |
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Guest
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Who wants to know how I had 4115 strength the second time through the game cheat-free?  (no lie, no cheating) |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:38 am |
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Tempered
Village Dweller
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 18
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quote:
On 2002-01-14 19:54, Anonymous wrote:
OK OK so maybe you CAN get your strength over 200 but why would anyone want to? I'm playing as a mage in chapter 5 right now and I only have 55 strength. It only takes me 5 or 6 hits at the most to kill any creaure I come across. I'm using the Berserkers Word sword which only has a 60 something damage rating. I have to agree with the guy who said
that the designers put WAY too many stat boosting potions in the game. Why would anyone want to be so powerful that they could
just run through and kill almost everything with one hit? Where is the fun in that? The next time I play Gothic I'm gonna go as a fighter type character but I'm not going to allow my strength to go higher than 90-100 max.
I agree. The biggest driving factors in this game are level and armor, not stats such as strength or dexterity. The strength and dexterity stats almost seem like an afterthought. Wish it was a skill based game, but a great game just the same. |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:15 am |
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Rainstorm
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 02 Dec 2001
Posts: 194
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Reason I use Fallout for examples is that it's the only RPG I've so far played and loved.(did play a bit of PS:T,but it never really got to me)
Again,I love Gothic and I'm eager to see PB's next game after this impressive start...I just don't see it as being a RPG.(since the RP options is way too limited based on the strong story and the road it takes)
quote:
On 2002-01-14 16:54, JemyM wrote:
> Quests are the same no matter how you play.
I cannot come up with a example of what you are refering to...
Quests does ALWAYS have the same result in ALL rpgs...
What I meant was for instance the old mine caving in and you helping free the free mine.
Get focus stone first and then get the rest of focus stones...go into orc town...and so on.
In contrast FO2:
Modoc vs. ghost farm can be done by helping them work together or kill the entire ghost farm by saying they're evil.
Vault city vs. Gecko...similar thing,kill Gecko or help them fix the plant.
quote:
> You can't really change your char and play good/evil.
Did you even play the game? You have more possibilities in the world to play good and just OR evil and betraying (and get away with it)...
Well...I guess this depends on how you define evil...
What I meant was I can't really do anything other than help Diego,Gorn,Lester and (whatever fire magician was called).(and Xardas of course)
Helping them is imho doing good without any option to ignore/do it other way.(due to the story driven nature of the game which is exactly what I think makes it an adventure instead of RPG)
quote:
> Only one way to solve quests.
There are several ways to solve many quests, and some of theese extra ways will make a defenite impact on the story-flow of the game (deciding wich camp you will finally join up with).
I noticed no true difference to the story flow when I sided with new camp as compared to sect loonies...(some quests within the camps differ to be able to join them,but apart from that...)
To clarify a bit more.
Gothic is pretty linear and its freedom is the ability to explore.(not a bad game to explore...)
You have one already defined PC which you can't change anything about for starters.
Apart from stuff like skinning and str,perc and mana you're forced to spend at least 10xp for a skill.
In FO you can decide to spend your XP on what you want to build your char like.(one lockpick,two speech,a couple on doctor/first aid and so on)
With perks even more so...want to be a kama sutra master,go ahead,want to be a speaker,no problem...
You can sell some NPC's to slavery,can be a slaver,boxing champ,ranger and even a pr0n star...(being pr0n star stops you from mrs wrights quest for instance,so your choice changes the game)
The story in FO/FO2 aren't the best,but the RPG'ing possibilities in them are hard to beat... |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:34 am |
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Guest
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I see your point Rainstorm but don't knock Gothic just because it's not totally nonlinear. Fallout 2 was a good game but I could name a few bad points about it also.
That game had so many script bugs that it was almost unplayable before patching it. |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:22 am |
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Rainstorm
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 02 Dec 2001
Posts: 194
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Yep,I know...I also managed to get a non US version first,so the kids were gone making the Johnny quest unsolveable.
I'm not in any way knocking Gothic,I love the game and am utterly impressed about this being PB's first game ever.
So I have nothing against Gothic and I'd get Gothic2 as soon as I could.(hoping PB will release some info on what's next for them soon...)
So if I sound like I'm dissing the game I've not managed to make myself clear,sorry.
The *only* thing I see wrong with it is labelling it a RPG,I'd rather think of it as an action adventure.(with some light RPG elements as far as char. evolution)
It doesn't really matter to me,what I fear is some bad word of mouth from the HC RPG community which I don't think the game deserves... |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:52 am |
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Guest
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uum... Rainstorm how can you NOT love PS:T? I mean, its deep! |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:21 am |
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Rainstorm
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 02 Dec 2001
Posts: 194
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PS:T was too much fight,pause,heal,fight,pause...
I also prefer to have less control over NPC's than I did there.(I mean IRL I can ask for help,but not control them like FO)
I don't crave the deepness BTW,I found PS:T too deep in fact,too much text to read which bored me...
It was a decent game,but nothing I salute.
It's just a matter of personal taste,we can't all like the same things,can we? |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:27 am |
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Shrapnel
Rocket Scientist
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 1325
Location: Newark, NJ |
Well, I played the BG series and I played Gothic...to me RPG means playing a role in a game. You do that in both games. Both games require character development, NPC interaction and solving sidequests to solve the big quest.
Only thing BG has that Gothic doesnt is the use of actual D&D rules and pages and pages (and more pages) of text to read, and buggy ai that gets stuck in corners on you, or attacks monsters you dont want it to, and no 3d graphics and limited pathways for you to take...
Now when the BG series came out, dont get me wrong, I was playing it till 2am every weeknight and all nighters on weekends...but only because it reminded me of my old P&P days (and the fact that Gothic wasnt out then) given a choice between 2d, 3/4 topdown view, linear gameplay and lots of text reading...or Gothic style RPGs?
Heh, thats a no brainer |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:27 pm |
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