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| Do the game companies just not give us the deep/meaningful storylines we want, or have we become so attracted to the instant gratification of most games that we've stopped asking for the stories? Who is to blame us, them, or both? |
| Us |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
| Them |
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30% |
[ 4 ] |
| Both share equal blame |
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61% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 13 |
Roach
SBR Belfry Bat
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 3233
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| Storylines lacking depth? Who's at fault? |
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I'm going to do a story for Myrthos, and I just wanted to take a quick poll as to my topic.
So do the game companies just not give us the deep/meaningful storylines we want, or have we become so attracted to the instant gratification of most games that we've stopped asking for the stories? Who is to blame us, them, or both?
At first I thought them, but the more I think about it the less I'm sure. |
Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:09 pm |
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XeroX
The MasterCopy
Joined: 13 Dec 2001
Posts: 7125
Location: The Netherlands |
I voted that both share equal emont of blame.
It's our foult for buying games that are lacking storylines dept.
It's their fault for not giving us more choise, if they don't make the games we can't buy them and it's harder to give them a real signal what we want.
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:54 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
In my opinion, we are also BOTH responsible for the lack of depth in stories. See, my opinion is that game developpers first started to give us that type of thin games. We bought them. We put them on pedestals and claimed them to be great games (and sometimes they are, admitedly), which prompted the developers to create more of them. This results in a community that does not want to have to go through too much text anymore, or spend time standing around waiting for an NPC to stop talking. they want something to do, and that usually means fighting something or other.
Game developpers create games that will sell, and so create the games that we crave and ask for. You can't blame them for that. In turn, we play what the developpers give us. We could play something else, but then again often times we have nothing deeper to play anyways. As craving for good games as we are, we buy what's on the shelves. It's kind of like a vicious circle.
Anyway, that's my opinion 
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:05 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
There may be another possibility. We have become jaded and stories that few years back would knock our socks off, we find bland and run-of-the-mill.
Last summer, there was this pub I was frequenting quite often with my buddies. One night, in drunken stupor we jotted down something resembling a poem, thanking our waitress on her service, on a customer satisfaction poll card. It was an instant success. So, next time we came, we did it again for another waitress. Soon enough, it became our little habit. By the end of the summer, it was just about demanded that we write these little blurbs, but by now it's become like a competition for waitresses who's gonna get a better one. We were becoming very high-strung to come up with stuff that would please. Point being: progress is not always a good thing.
Besides, aren't adventure games supposed to be about stories? Sort of like interactive books? And RPGs are supposed to be about you making your own story. I know this can't be done properly in CRPGs, but...
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:15 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Look at how many copies of Diablo 2 that have sold then look at how many copies of Planescape: Torment that have sold. You'll get your answer right there.
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:07 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
Look at how many copies of Diablo 2 that have sold then look at how many copies of Planescape: Torment that have sold. You'll get your answer right there.
I think that advertising is to blame in this case though. Interplay saw Planescape more as a product to throw at the mob that was waiting for BG2 a little later. It won RPG game of the year at several gaming sites, but you never saw Interplay try and cash on that. D2 on the other hand, was a very anticipated game, and it would have sold like cupcakes even if it had been crap.
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:17 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
| Storylines lacking depth? Who's at fault? |
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It is obviously both sides hold responsible. As we know gamer mostly consist of young people that prefer "fast & furious" style of gaming, & thus games like Diablo became very popular even though it contain bare minimum story & other things. More mature gamers or some hard-core CRPGs may prefer good story & better plot/character development, NPCs interaction or role-play elements, but i guess they are not as many as the first gamer group.
Also if we look at gender, woman often favor better story or role-play elements in games rather than cramming sword upon NPCs/monster's neck as often as possible. But women gamer are few - so demand for that kind of games also small. It's well known that most gamer are male and prospect of becoming a heroes, powerful or kick/shoot the hell out of monsters is always a big draw (you could count me in & blame me  ).
As for games developer & companies, they usually follow where the money is - if Diablo type game are in great demand surely their will making more Diablo clone (e.g Throne of Darkness, Dungeon Siege, etc). There's exception however, like small developer or some less well known companies that quite successful with more story/plot laden CRPGs such as Gothic. In some other genre, like The Longest Journey (adventure) have a very good & fascinating story (IMHO an important aspect in that genre); i still remember the witty protagonist April Ryan with her stalwart & "darn" (annoying) talking bird go for adventure into another space & time dimension. But today there are very few adventure games in market, instead most gamer prefering Diablo-like CRPGs/MMORPGs or FPS genre. The developers surely aware of this or where the money is & that's why today we saw many MMORPGs on the market. Although THe Longest Journey actually sold pretty, but they could never as popular as games like Diablo or Counter-Strike. I think there are some element hindered this from happening even with very interesting story; such as a slow gameplay ( not fast & furious! ), or puzzle that "blow you away." Well, i admit that i did got pissed when playing The Longest Journey after stuck on certain place for hours. At least in CRPGs when that happen you could always go for other quest or go find & beat the hell out some NPCs/monsters! . Hah!, that explain why CRPGs/FPS so popular without much content/good story! (  hope you don't blame me too much ). O.k that's all, sorry if this get too long.
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:22 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
My feeling is that "they" are responsible. There are several reasons I say this. First, it is fairly easy to see from discussions on this forum site and others around that gamers (specifically those who play CRPGs at all) do indeed want good stories that are not too linear (a high degree of freedom). So since "we" are asking for good stories, it is the responsibility of gaming companies to produce these (rather than the thin, linear games that are typically produced).
Further, it is an assumption by many that gaming companies cannot provide both high quality, indepth stories AND fun, fast paced action in the same package - this is wrong. We have seen examples of both and it should be obvious that it is only a matter of the developers caring enough to put effort into both elements in the same game. This is their responsibility - one most gaming companies do not do very well.
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When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:16 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
Don't be too quick to point fingers  We're not saying that they "can't" make games that both have good action and deep stories. We're saying that they don't want to. That's totally different. Tell me, why would they want to spend more money and more time to create a complexe game and develop and deep story when they could spend half the time and money creating a game that's fast pace and has a generic story but will sell as much or maybe even more?
The numbers speak for themselves, and if the developpers think that it's not necessary to make a deep story to make money, then they won't. Look at Dungeon siege. Almost everyone was quick to point out that its story was very simple, very generic, it was the game's main negative feature. Did that hamper sales? No. It sold very well. It even scored very well. Publishers see that and ask themselves why they should spend more money and time if that type of game sells.
If we wouldn't like those games, we wouldn't buy them. That's what the publishers think. Money drives this business, don't ever doubt that it's anything else.
EDIT: Oh, and by the way you spoke of exceptions proving that publishers and developers care for their gaming community. I agree. But they are the exceptions that prove the rule IMO. If they made more money than most, then they wouldn't be an exception.
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:27 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by Ekim
Don't be too quick to point fingers We're not saying that they "can't" make games that both have good action and deep stories. We're saying that they don't want to. That's totally different.
The question put to us in the poll speaks to who is responsible - not desire. It is "their" choice to make a "high quality" game or an "inferior" game. It is "their" choice to make a game with a high quality story or not. It is "their" choice to provide a game of high quality or take advantage of our desire to play whatever is available - for that is our only real choice.
quote:
Tell me, why would they want to spend more money and more time to create a complexe game and develop and deep story when they could spend half the time and money creating a game that's fast pace and has a generic story but will sell as much or maybe even more?
Must I really answer this  ? It is called honor, strive for excellence, etc. Further, our capatalistic society should have taught us all by now that one CAN make a great deal of profit AND make a superb product - they are not diametrically opposed.
Remember, this is about who is responsible - that is the manufacturer of the game. They are the only ones who have direct control over the product they put out the door.
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When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:01 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote:
Originally posted by Joey Nipps
Must I really answer this ? It is called honor, strive for excellence, etc. Further, our capatalistic society should have taught us all by now that one CAN make a great deal of profit AND make a superb product - they are not diametrically opposed.
Remember, this is about who is responsible - that is the manufacturer of the game. They are the only ones who have direct control over the product they put out the door.
And what mythical economy are your developers working in? The better product does not always win (Betamax vs VHS), nor does creator of that better product always survive and prosper. No matter how idealistic we'd like to be about nobility and excellence (and, believe it or not. I put lots of stock in them) , the developers gotta get paid! Who pays em? Publishers (the evil empire of beancounters). Who pays those criminals? Gamers. To put the blame solely on any of these three groups ignores the fact that they are connected in a continuous cycle of supply and demand.
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:35 pm |
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Northchild
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 232
Location: New York, USA |
A year ago, I never thought that I'd be saying this, but I don't play games for the story.
Ach! How can a self-confirmed, die-hard RPG/adventure gamer be saying this? I guess that when it all comes down the line, there are issues that are more important to me.
1. Playability. I want high frame rates, entertaining motion/physics, interaction with NPCs and everything else around me, a plethora of techniques that I can use to explore the environment and to use things around me to my advantage/amusement.
2. Overall graphics quality/level design/environment design (including sound, music, and voice). As far as RPGs go, Morrowind had a good start here. Pity about the somewhat stinted playability (IMO).
3. Production quality. Includes ease of use, intuitive play and menus, sound multiplayer support, good tech-support, good documentation/tutorials, good mod designs, etc.
One could argue that a deep and meaningful storyline was essential to the above, but nothing could be farther from the truth. The storyline only needs to be skin-deep for playability, production quality, and environment quality. Of course, what is there needs to be used *well*.
A deep and meaningful storyline on games that have all of the above is icing. It turns a good game into a great game. A deep and meaningful storyline on a game lacking one of the three things above does not make that game a good game. |
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:11 am |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
Some good points Northchild. Part of the problem with relying on "deep and meaningful" story alone (not that very many games have done this) is that what is deep and what is meaningful are very, very subjective. Some people require their literature to be of Hemingway level and some are quite content with the authors of what used to be called dime store novels.
But you are correct, I do not care for a Hemingway level story in my games IF there are other game factors that are well done (NPC interactions, various ways to deal with quests, etc.).
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 2:01 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Northchild
A year ago, I never thought that I'd be saying this, but I don't play games for the story.
Elite, which I remember playing in wireframe graphics, 15 years ago, had absolutely no story. I still consider it to be one of the best games I have ever played.
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:06 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Joey Nipps
Must I really answer this ? It is called honor, strive for excellence, etc. Further, our capatalistic society should have taught us all by now that one CAN make a great deal of profit AND make a superb product - they are not diametrically opposed.
Remember, this is about who is responsible - that is the manufacturer of the game. They are the only ones who have direct control over the product they put out the door.
Ok, once again, I am not saying that developers are not to blame. I am of the opinion it's as much the developers fault as it is our own. In any case, as it's allready been said before, your idealistic notion of honour in business is very touching, but honour is not what drives business. Although a game developer might have very honourable ideas to begin with, they quickly get "toned down" by publishers who in turn just want to make money in a business that is filled with pirates and hackers that will crack their products and offer them for free. If a publisher looks at the yearly report of what type of games, he will commission the developers to make their game as much like those types of games that sell and make money as possible.
Of course, once in a while, a very daring developers gets lucky and has the opportunity to make a great game that side-tracks from the current trend. And lucky enough for them their game gets picked up and becomes commercially successful. In turn, this success might create a new trend, and so on. But those are exceptions, unfortunately.
Now, while the publishers and developers are responsible for puting out the games we will play on the store shelves, we as players are responsible for choosing the games we spend our money on. That is also a responsability in our capitalistic society my friend It's too easy to blame everything else. You can't seriously come before me and say that millions upon millions of people in the world were wrong for buying Diablo2. And in turn, because that game sold like crazy, you know that other publishers will try to make their game as much like that one as possible because they know it sells, it's a proven formula. You can't blame them for that because people bought into it!
Whether we like it or not, we have to realise that our money drives the business, and that developpers and publishers look at where our money goes and try to channel their energies to make sure their own little funnel is right underneath that money pit. That's the way it goes. If you don't like a particular type of game, if you want more depth in a story, then stop buying games and only buy the one that has the deep story. If everyone does that, I can garantee you that there will only be deep storied games out there in a short while  (and by then you'll start hearing those who crave for fast paced action games crying out loud for publishers to give them some meat! hehe!)
Anyway, I'll stop now...
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:19 pm |
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