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| Are copy protection schemes worth it? |
| Yes, they save money for the manufacturers. |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
| No, they don't save the manufacturer any money. Just a waste. |
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92% |
[ 13 ] |
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| Total Votes : 14 |
Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
| Are manufacturer's attempts at copy protection worthwhile? |
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Please consider the various copy protection schemes employed by game manufacturers. Do you think these actually do any good? Do they actually result in more game sales or are they just a pain in the butt for the users?
My personal feeling is that they do no good and some types (safe disc for example) actually cause problems for the user.
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When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
Sat Jul 20, 2002 1:43 am |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
I don't think copy protection does any good. Not in games or music or movies. There is always a way to circumvent these protections, unless every bit of our hardware is controlled by some DRM mechanism. They are just a waste of money to gaming companies, I don't know how much those protection licences cost but I bet they're not cheap.
For the consumer, copy protection is a nuisance. I like to keep my CD's safe, requiring a CD for playing when everything is on my HD is stupid and unecessary. I usually get a noCD-crack for games, just to avoid the CD circus. They also prevent me from making backups of games for safekeeping. In music it denies my legal right to do what I want with that. I have a portable mp3 player and I keep a lot of my music on my HD in mp3 format. If I would buy a copy protected CD, it would prevent me from listening to it in mp3 format, which is against consumer protection laws, atleast in Finland. Additionally many protection schemes, especially SafeDisk, cause performance drops in games. For example Morrowind felt like two different games after I got the noCD crack for it. I'm not sure what scheme NWN uses, but I bet that I could get some more stability by getting a crack for it too. I'm just worried it might affect my online playing.
To pirates copy protection means nothing, most of the protections are hacked before any games actually use them. By the time games come out, the net is full of tools and instructions on how to remove the protection.
In the end, nobody gains anything, except for the companies making these useless programs. Developers lose money and I lose both my patience and my legal rights to use my own property.
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- George Bernard Shaw
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 2:02 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Piracy is definitely a problem in this industry (and many others), but I don't see where the CD checkers do much good. As was said earlier, the noCD crack for every major game pops up within days of the release. Sir-Tech actually had to do a good bit of tech-support because of troubles Safedisk caused them on Wiz8. I think there needs to be some kind of proof-of-ownership, but the tactics being used today aren't getting it done.
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Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 2:15 am |
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The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast |
Are copy protection schemes a hassle for the user? Definitely. Are they a waste of time for devs? Nope. Sure they're annoying, and people are always going to find ways around them and copy anyway, but the devs must at least try to stop piracy. Otherwise every gamer out there could just burn themselves a copy of the software even with the most generic of re-write programs. Example - I have a friend who loves computer games, but hates paying for them....he has a cd re-write drive and a generic burning software to go with it...now if he tries to copy, say, a new game with a safedisk wrapper [which will not work with his crappy program] he normally quits at the first failed attempt and is forced to fork over some cash for the product. Now, in the long run, computer geeks are always going to find a way to hack protection schemes and pirate software but the schemes still stop people who aren't "computer-minded" enough to see a way past them.
...but enough with all that, I'm really trying to say that......Software Piracy = Bad 
EDIT: I'd also like to say I find CD Checkng progams very annoying. As an honest [and paying ] costumer I feel it's my right to at least be able to keep my original cd safe from scratches and what not if I can not make a backup cd. [and the performance hits are horrid] I'm glad that the Fallout 1/2 and Gothic don't require a CD. This is why software pirates are evil people. 
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 5:00 am |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
the best copy protection is the good old method:
what is the 3. word in line 6 on page 10 in the handbook ?
the handbook should be hard to scan/copy by using many black grey colors.
Another good method is not to stop a game when the program detects a pirate copy, but make the game not-playable-hard in higher levels.
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild= |
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 9:20 am |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
quote:
Originally posted by HiddenX
Another good method is not to stop a game when the program detects a pirate copy, but make the game not-playable-hard in higher levels.
Operation Flashpoint was playable up to a certain level and then it simply stopped working.
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Jaz |
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 12:50 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
I don't think copy protection does a bit of good, I vote that it's a waste of time and resources. I agree with the old addage that "locks only keep honest people honest". I think that's true of any lock, even copy protection, I doubt it keeps one single person from pirating anything. If you're that kind of person you can download the game ISO's from the internet already cracked. Every now and then people even come here and ask where they can get pirate games.
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''Perhaps I'm old and tired but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang the sense of it and just keep yourself occupied. Look at me: I design coastlines. I got an award for Norway.''--Slartibartfast |
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 2:24 pm |
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XeroX
The MasterCopy
Joined: 13 Dec 2001
Posts: 7125
Location: The Netherlands |
The only protection that ever works is online.
Before you can play online they check the cdcode.
Everything else can be cracked.
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:37 pm |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
Xerox, I agree. Cd keys and proper authentication are the way to go. I don't mind registering my CD-key for a game. Half-Life, Vampire and NWN all have this as do many other games. Too bad NWN doesn't stop at that..
I know a lot of people who fell in love with Counter Strike while playing in LAN at school. Most of them would have probably just pirated it, but since it requires the CD key to play in the net, most of them bought it.
That doesn't work with music, though. Still I'm not at all sad to see big record labels take the hit, I have no sympathy for them...
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- George Bernard Shaw
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 4:11 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
I can't say/taking the poll on whether various copy protection schemes could (or already) result in more game sales or not, since only publisher themselves know/keep the sales record.
However i could make some comments on copy protection issues generally. I support the copyright or legal right of creator/publishers to control the use & reproduction of original works, since that is the way the creators earn their living & publishers earn their profits for the products distribution.
Nevertheless, there's something that should not be overlooks by publishers. In recent years (after period in 1980s) software/game manufactures has step up again the copy protection efforts. This can be seen from various new copy protection schemes/technologies & just few months ago, there's debate in the US to implementing embedding copy protection controls in all consumer electronic devices. Hollywood studios have asked that all PCs and consumer electronics sport technology to prohibit (through the hardwares) illicit copying. But others are concern that this would bring many hardware compatibility problems and too much intervention on how consumer should use their products (e.g full install programs/music on hard disk & storing Cds away). For examples check up this article at http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/management/opinion/story/0,10801,49358,00.html). And the most upsetting facts is that always people who buy a original software/games/DVDs would suffering from hardware compatibility or others copy protection related problems.
For examples, just see how many fans fuming, screaming & rioting at Bethesda forum few days after the Morrowind release. It's understandable, imagine yourself are Arena or Daggerfall fans, waiting around 5 years, & your hands are actually shaking when the glossy Morrowind box is on your hands, & then you rushing home, squirming on your chair waiting the installation process to end, & then quickly fire up the game menu, click on play, get errors, & your trusty CD-ROM decided it has problem with SafeDisk on the CD, then you start sweating, face turning to reddish & ended with bloodshot eyes. Then thing get worst when you found out that some people with Warez version have already enjoying the game, everything works fine, even it run faster, and no CD checking everytime start up the game!.
My whole point is that the publishers & manufactures should (& have the responsibility) to find a good quality, up to date, advanced copy protection schemes, the one that really working!. What's point the games publisher (& other big electronic manufacturer/Hollywood big studios) campaigning for buying a original products - while consumers who buy the orginal products get punishment (with compatibility problems & such) & people who buy a "unoriginal" get the rewards & encouragement!.
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 4:14 pm |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
I think the thing that angers me the most with this new trend to get a embedded protection is that if it happens, the manufacturers and content providers are practically taking the control of my own computer from me. With for example Palladium, the user is not the one who makes decisions on what to play/use on his computer, but it's the authority signing the security certificates. I will not be trusted, because every user is a potential criminal.
The new DRM schemes can also hurt open source and Linux. Since getting those certificates will probably cost money, a lot of the open source developers will have to quit, since they'll have no financial possibility to obtain those licenses. Furthermore, since the certification is only given to runnable code, even if the user has a Linux distro with certification, he will be unable to compile any programs from source, since the machine will refuse to start them without the certificate.
Ofcourse the DRM scheme doesn't necessarily do those things, most of the schemes presented now have the means and maybe even the will to prevent free software from being used. Reminds me of the tactics big media companies have used to prevent independent musicians. mp3.com kicked their best-selling indepentend artist out without any reason the same month they were bought by a big record label.
_________________
"If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance."
- George Bernard Shaw
- Member of The Nonflamers' Guild -
- Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth -
- Worshiper of Written Word -
- Proud supporter of E.H.U.A.O - |
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 4:28 pm |
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Provis
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 872
Location: Middle of the Forest |
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by HiddenX
Another good method is not to stop a game when the program detects a pirate copy, but make the game not-playable-hard in higher levels.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The space sim X-Beyond the frontier had this type of method, if you had a copied version everything would seem fine untill you looked at your credits and saw that they got cut in half every couple of minutes. 
@XeroX
This type of copy protection scheme doesn't even work. WinXP has this "call home" feature that was cracked even before WinXP was final. |
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 5:35 pm |
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XeroX
The MasterCopy
Joined: 13 Dec 2001
Posts: 7125
Location: The Netherlands |
It works for games that play online.
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The original RED poster (retired now)
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 6:05 pm |
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Provis
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 872
Location: Middle of the Forest |
quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
It works for games that play online.
Only if one connects to official servers. |
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 9:48 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
Some of the biggest software manifacturers that cry the loudest about piracy losses are in the position that they are today only due to ready availability of their products. I won't even mention MS. How about some large game company? Blizzard for example. How many of you would know of Warcraft if your buddy didn't tell you about it and you got a copy on a disk? Or if you dind't give your buddy a copy on a disk with a "must play" note? Was Blizzard all that hurt by it? What would be better: twice the monetary profit for Warcraft or 1/20th of the user base? The worse of it though, is that it is not the companies that are really crying. It is the individuals within those companies that do it for their own personal benefit. Its a political move and it has a very high dollar number attached to it. Doesn't matter that the number is completely bogus. It looks big.
I'm not supporting outright piracy. Don't get me wrong. When I was in school, I downloaded few ripped games. Rented and copied many more. If they somehow prevented me from doing it, I would not play the games. Not because I was a bad person, but because I didn't have the money to afford $60-80 games. If they sold for $20, I'd buy them. Then I started downloading rips for purposes of evaluation. What better way to evaluate a game than to have it? If I liked it, I went out and bought a full version. Today I just buy games. Don't test them. I read few reviews, but that's it. Mostly because I can afford it today. But I still know that many cannot. I could afford Warcraft 3 today. But I haven't bought it. And I won't. And it saddens me that people did. It's a blatant rip-off. The time is coming when I'd like to support ripping of software as a rebellion against the opressive giants. I can just imagine what their "losses" will be like now...
I also find it funny how the music industry cried so much about Napster. Yet it turns out (studies actually done show it) that the people that used it the most, used it to find out which new music they should go out and buy. People, for the large part, dind't do it to rip off music companies, but to share the joy of music. Who profits the most from this? Criminals?
I can tell you this much. When they start implementing their own controls well, I'll stop buying. In fact, many of the games I have on my shelf now (and that have been installed on my computer for a long time) I don't play again because I'm too lazy to try and find the CD. They won't let me play without the CD. Soon enough I won't buy them any more. It's just not worth it. I may be a lone crazy wolf on this, but I'm sure people will soon follow.
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 11:51 pm |
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