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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Innos Rage, Red Wind and Lee's Axe are all better.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
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=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:24 am |
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Kiwi Boy
High Emperor
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1086
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How about the charged Uriziel blade? |
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Mon Jan 13, 2003 6:35 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
It's not as good as Innos' Rage. I tested it. You'll take out a troll faster with Innos' Rage than with the charged Uriziel.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:22 am |
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oE|Crusader
Village Leader
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 93
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i like scars sword, its fast and effective |
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Thu Jan 16, 2003 1:52 am |
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x_Noble_Paladin_x
Head Merchant
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 61
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Long live one handers!!!!!!
they are so much more fun!!!
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Last edited by x_Noble_Paladin_x on Fri May 23, 2003 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Thu Jan 16, 2003 3:41 am |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
On a challenge from Val (during an early version of this debate) I even spent four hours one night doing an experiment to find out which sword was better. The results are here if you're interested. |
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Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:44 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
You are all waaaaay off track here..
URIZIEL IS a better sword, but not on all creatures.. URIZIEL is not a weapon, but a magic.. it does NOT have weapon damage, but:
MAGIC damage: 120
Fire damage: 30
Innos' Rage
Weapon damage: 110
So when fighting creatures with low magic resistance, URIZIEL is the best sword, but when fighting creatures with higher magic resistance than damage resistance, Innos' Rage will win.. ever treid killing trolls with Storm of Fire? Nearly impossible! Trolls have an extreme magic/fire resistance, and URIZIEL stinks against'em.. try something with 0 magic resistance, and you'll see a result which looks nothing like the ones you got in your test, Gig. |
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Fri Jan 17, 2003 4:58 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
This isn't actually true. Damage in Gothic for all weapons except Urizeal is S+W-A. Urizeal limits it's damage to 150... 120 if you fight a monster with a very high fire resistance like a Fire lizard. Innos' Rage, unlike Urizeal, uses the standard weapon model. By the time you are able to get Innos' Rage your strength is well past 100, but lets use 100 as an example. S=100 + W=110 so damage alone equals 210 - A=90 (Gomez) results in a damage rating of 120 which is unrestricted damage on every strike. The damage is higher on any creature with less armor. The maximum damage that Urizeal can deliver against an unarmored creature is 150 since it doesn't add strength to it's damage. Innos' Rage will deliver 210 against the same unarmored creature.
The reason that Gomez is so hard to kill with Urizeal is D=150-A=90 (Gomez has fire and magic resitance too, but I can't remember what they are, so I'll leave them out of the example since they only effect Urizeal) for a damage of 60 for each strike. If you pick up Innos' Rage after Gomez drops it, you now deliver 120 per strike, double what Urizeal can deliver! And these numbers are very forgiving towards Urizeal considering that we aren't including all of it's damage penalties.
Damage is damage in Gothic. Magic damage doesn't have an advantage over edge damage. The devs already answered that question for us a long time ago. Resistance of armor to fire and magic chip away at Urizeal's damage while they impede Inno's Rage not at all.
This is a hard nut to swallow, I know, I felt the same way. It doesn't change the fact that if Me is strong enough to use Innos' rage he will do much more damage with it than with Urizeal. It doesn't matter if Me fights a creature with high magic resistance or not, those factors only effect Urizeal. The truth is that any of the big weapons of the last two chapters are superior to Urizeal in the hands of a character strong enough to use them. Urizeal was meant to be used by a low strength mage character, that's where it's advantage is, it is the only high damage weapon in the game that can be used by a low strength character.
A mage, however, is much better served by removing the rune from Uriziel since it is much more powerful that way.  |
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Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:58 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Screw best weapon... my favorite weapon in Gothic is...
(most of you know it)
The mighty Pickaxe!
(seen in action killing a troll http://www.geocities.com/bughunterx/DQPart21.html)
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:27 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Gig, my point is that regular creatures have a lot higher weapons resistance, than magic resistance.. you'll do 150 damage against those creatures with Uriziel, but nothin near it with Innos' Rage due to resistance.. |
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Sun Jan 19, 2003 12:04 am |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
I understood the point you were trying to make and it would only be valid if Urizeal didn't need to overcome regular armor resistance and that isn't the case. Urizeal has the same armor penalties as any other weapon, i.e. it has the enemy's armor rating deducted from it's damage. Urizeal will not do 150 damage against a monster with 0 magic resistance but high weapon resistance because the armor still must be overcome.
Urizeal doesn't carry the strength bonus of Innos' Rage but it does bear the armor penalty of every weapon in the game. Therefore, if our mythical creature has 0 magic resistance and 0 armor then Urizeal does damage of 150. However, against the same creature Innos' Rage does a whopping damage of 210. Again, damage is damage, it's irrelevant how it's caused.
If we give our creature a high weapon resistance of 100 but it's magic resistance remains 0 then Urizeal, which still must overcome the 100 armor class, will deliver a damage rating of only 50 while Innos' Rage will deliver a damage rating of 110, the magical nature of Urizeal is irrelevant to it's damage against an armored enemy of any kind. The only way that Urizeal can truly deliver a damgage of 150 is against a creature with 0 magic resistance and 0 armor.
Innos' Rage will always be superior to Urizeal, no matter the enemy, because Urizeal doesn't share the strength benefit of Innos' Rage but it does share the armor penelty. The damage model of Gothic was explored absolutely to death a year or so ago when that game was all the rage. We aren't covering new ground here... Urizeal was meant to do only one thing, kill the final orc shaman when no other weapon will. And because it does that so easily it seems like it should be that way with all enemies. It isn't though, outside of that single battle Urizeal's damage is 150-armor, period.
@Xen--  I loved A Digger's Quest! |
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Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:36 am |
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Lizzy
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 24 Nov 2002
Posts: 117
Location: CA |
I read the Novella... intresting.
I never found it very hard to defeat a troll, with any two handed weapon.
I just swing my sword before he can swing his arm, he never gets off a hit.
As for best weapon, I like the Uriziel rune (wave/ripple of death). 12 razors go up in flames in matter of seconds, as opposed to fighting them with minorial weapons (which takes forever).
The Crossbow of War works nice against: old camp guards, medium size beasts, Demons, and orcs.
Scars Sword is the best one-hander at 85 damage. Although Cor Kalom and Ravens swords arn't bad either at 70 damage. Good for taking on multiple skeleton warriors (I do find one-handed weapons much faster).
I wasn't a big fan of either Innos's Rage or Uriziel, I only used them when I had too. I prefered the Kings Blade, Blood Blade and, in special occasions, Red Wind. I found the Two-Handed Swords good for defeating: zombies, large beasts, small groups of orcs, orc temple guards, and orc shamans. |
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Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:57 am |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Gig, then how come you can defeat creatures immune to regular weapons with Uriziel? Either the fire damage, or the magic damage has to do damage beyond weapon resistance..
My fav. is using a heavy templars' armor, and Hero's Blade(the exact equipment of Cor Angar).. I'm a fan of him I guess!  |
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Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:25 am |
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