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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
| What features would be in your "ideal" CRPG? |
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What would you like to see in the CRPG of your dreams?
1. Heavy, medium, or light on story?
2. Spoken dialogue or written text?
3. One main character or a group of characters?
4. Lots of dialogue text or not much?
5. Extensive amount of background material on the world and its history, in such things as books, maps, and legends?
6. Action-oriented with lots of fighting, an even mix of fighting, quest solving, and character interaction, or heavy emphasis on non-violent solutions to quests and character interaction?
7. Simple or complicated combat? Single or party-based combat? Point and click (Diablo, Morrowind) or combination-oriented (as in Gothic, Blade of Darkness, etc)?
8. Hundreds of spells or fewer, but more focused, spells?
9. First-person view (Might & Magic games, Morrowind, Wizardry 8, Arx Fatalis, System Shock 2, etc), third-person over-the-shoulder (Blade of Darkness, Gothic), or third-person isometric, also known as "bird's eye" view (Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc)?
10. Many skills and stats or fewer or no skills and stats?
11. High fantasy (Tolkien, D&D, Elves, Dwarves, etc), gritty medieval fantasy (Gothic), or other unique fantasy (specify)?
12. Instead of fantasy, science fiction? Space opera (Star Wars, etc), apocalyptic (Fallout), near-future (Deus Ex), space ships/stations (System Shock 1 & 2), alien invasion, or a mix of science fiction and fantasy (Might & Magic, Wizardry games)?
13. Custom rules set made up by the developer, D&D ruleset, GURPS ruleset, SPECIAL (from Fallout, soon Lionheart), or other?
14. 2D or 3D?
15. Lots of possible interaction with the surroundings or little interaction with the surroundings?
16. Linear, directed exploration (Icewind Dale) or free-form, non-linear exploration (Fallout 1 & 2, Gothic, Morrowind)?
17. Interaction in world politics and factions?
18. Ability to create or choose from many avatars (main characters) or one avatar?
19. No history for character, except what the player has created or thought of, or pre-written history for the main character?
20. Random dungeons and areas or hand-made dungeons and areas?
_________________
Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
Fri Dec 13, 2002 5:20 am |
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hoyp
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 501
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your question is too complicated  |
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Fri Dec 13, 2002 5:23 am |
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Gothic Soul
Master of Shadows
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 682
Location: Underdark |
I was going to say something but I think just like Hoyp
Non Linear is the best.
_________________
"Whow, the necromancer is here" -Bartacus to myself |
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Fri Dec 13, 2002 6:37 am |
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Seth
Last Man Standing
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 1008
Location: Faerun |
WOW!!
1 Heavy story. 2 Written text with crucial character voice over. 3 Both (possibility to finish with one, but also have the choice other NPC to join and have control over them ala BG). 4 Not too much dialogue and not too little. 5 Undecided. 6 Definitely quest solving with some fighting, possibility of different approach most situations. 7 Turn based. 8 Not too many. 9 Isometric. 10 Some. 11. My favorite game is Fallout, but I’m open-minded. 12???. 13 SPECIAL will do. 14. Don’t care, but some 3D effects would be nice. 15 Somewhere in the middle. 16. Non linear is a must. 17 Yes. 18 Many and gender. 19 Some prewritten history unless I play a newborn. 20 Hand made.
_________________
Money - An article which may be used as a universal passport to everywhere except heaven, and as a universal provider of everything except happiness. |
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Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:31 am |
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Korzen
Forsaken
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 3673
Location: The User Groups Section. |
For me the best Rpg would be planeescape torment2. I trust guys from black isle and I'm sure they would make a Reall HIT! Planeescape  |
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Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:24 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by Korzen
For me the best Rpg would be planeescape torment2. I trust guys from black isle and I'm sure they would make a Reall HIT! Planeescape
You question is far too complex and not truly answerable. Most (if not all) of the things you ask provide for real world tradeoffs. For instance, NOBODY would want 2D vs 3D - except that in reality going 3D makes for some tradeoffs at the design stage, tradeoffs in cost and tradeoffs in terms of the user required hardware.
Written dialog vs voice? Again, tradeoffs in terms of cost, time to make, etc. - what do I really want - I want both with ways for me (the user) to curtail each as I please. But THAT (particularly for each of the things you mention) would run the cost and time to produce up WAY too far.
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Fri Dec 13, 2002 6:01 pm |
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pakaraatzi
Counselor of the King
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 359
Location: Ontario, Canada |
The RPG of my dreams? Well, actually, the RPG of my dreams would be one that asked me all of your questions Namirrha on start-up so I could personalize it right there and then before I played. Then have the option later to re-choose my options when I was bored/finished the 1st one.
That would be it for me I think. 
_________________
~ woooozle! ~ |
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Fri Dec 13, 2002 8:15 pm |
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ArcturusXIV
City Guard
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Location: Oz |
1. Heavy, medium, or light on story?
I like stories which constantly remind you of why you're adventuring, but don't burden you down with needless dialogue and character interaction. I'm a lonewolf. I prefer exploration with a strong plot and a reason for exploring.
2. Spoken dialogue or written text?
I don't like much character interaction. Just enough to keep me interested in the plot line and to add in some plot twists along the way. I prefer both spoken/written when possible.
3. One main character or a group of characters?
One main character. As I said, I'm a loner.
4. Lots of dialogue text or not much?
Not much.
5. Extensive amount of background material on the world and its history, in such things as books, maps, and legends?
As long as I don't have to sit there while a character tells me his whole life story, I'm great with things such as books/maps/legends. So that would be a yes. I like a good background for the land I'm adventuring in.
6. Action-oriented with lots of fighting, an even mix of fighting, quest solving, and character interaction, or heavy emphasis on non-violent solutions to quests and character interaction?
I prefer puzzle solving and exploration, though I like the element of danger that combat adds.
7. Simple or complicated combat? Single or party-based combat? Point and click (Diablo, Morrowind) or combination-oriented (as in Gothic, Blade of Darkness, etc)?
Doesn't matter to me. Turn-based combat has its place, just as action-oriented has its place.
8. Hundreds of spells or fewer, but more focused, spells?
I don't care how many spells there are as long as they are unique and interesting.
9. First-person view (Might & Magic games, Morrowind, Wizardry 8, Arx Fatalis, System Shock 2, etc), third-person over-the-shoulder (Blade of Darkness, Gothic), or third-person isometric, also known as "bird's eye" view (Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc)?
First person.
10. Many skills and stats or fewer or no skills and stats?
Depends on the focus of the game. I personally prefer more stats most of the time so I can get into the micromanagement aspect of the game. But the stats have to make sense within the context of the game.
11. High fantasy (Tolkien, D&D, Elves, Dwarves, etc), gritty medieval fantasy (Gothic), or other unique fantasy (specify)?
I like surrealist fantasy.
12. Instead of fantasy, science fiction? Space opera (Star Wars, etc), apocalyptic (Fallout), near-future (Deus Ex), space ships/stations (System Shock 1 & 2), alien invasion, or a mix of science fiction and fantasy (Might & Magic, Wizardry games)?
Mix between sci-fi and fantasy, though I tilt more towards fantasy. Once again, it has to fit within the context of the game.
13. Custom rules set made up by the developer, D&D ruleset, GURPS ruleset, SPECIAL (from Fallout, soon Lionheart), or other?
Custom
14. 2D or 3D?
I like sprite-based because sometimes they have more detail and originality over 3D graphics. However, 3D is nice if the developer does a good job of adding detail into the surroundings.
15. Lots of possible interaction with the surroundings or little interaction with the surroundings?
LOTS! And I mean LOTS!!!
16. Linear, directed exploration (Icewind Dale) or free-form, non-linear exploration (Fallout 1 & 2, Gothic, Morrowind)?
Non-linear.
17. Interaction in world politics and factions?
Sure, as long as it alters or affects the plot in some manner.
18. Ability to create or choose from many avatars (main characters) or one avatar?
Depends how well-threshed out the main character is. One avatar is good if the storyline makes that character interesting and allows me to customize him throughout the journey. However, I usually prefer my own choice of avatar.
19. No history for character, except what the player has created or thought of, or pre-written history for the main character?
Usually pre-written.
20. Random dungeons and areas or hand-made dungeons and areas?
Hand-made by far.
_________________
"Madness is the first step towards unselfishness. Be mad and tell us what is behind the veil of 'sanity'. The purpose of life is to bring us closer to those secrets, and madness is the only means." --Kahlil Gibran |
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Fri Dec 13, 2002 8:33 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
| Re: What features would be in your "ideal" CRPG? |
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quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
What would you like to see in the CRPG of your dreams?
This would be my dream-game CRPG. It might NEVER come to pass, unless i make it, but that would take me about 100 years to do alone, and i dont have any money to make it with, so it might never happen anywayz, UNLESS somebody OUT THERE would kindly grant me 20 million dollars (US currency please) with which i could make the ultimate CRPG with; believe me, i can do it, but you have got to have money to do it with in this business: no money, not possible... But, since you asked, and i like this topic, here is my definition of the perfect CRPG:
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
1. Heavy, medium, or light on story?
Heavy on story, but it has to be dynamic, i.e. it has got to change with the surroundings of the world.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
2. Spoken dialogue or written text?
Written text, because spoken dialogue is too space-intensive. I would rather have a lot to read than less being spoken.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
3. One main character or a group of characters?
Group. Why? Because you can try out more types of characters all at once in a group, instead of being stuck with only one character the whole time. Also, it would be cool if you can get monsters to join you.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
4. Lots of dialogue text or not much?
Not much. Keep it short. Have detailed storyline but divide the reading itself into small segments.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
5. Extensive amount of background material on the world and its history, in such things as books, maps, and legends?
Extensive, plus it has got to be dynamic so that the world is alive and breathing, not just that it seems that way, but because it is. And also you must be able to visit the places or monsters or creatures that the legends, maps, and books talk about, else it is just a waste of words. I dont care how bad the King is, unless i can dethrone him!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
6. Action-oriented with lots of fighting, an even mix of fighting, quest solving, and character interaction, or heavy emphasis on non-violent solutions to quests and character interaction?
It should be customizable. Players should be able to choose what type of play they want through a menu-system instead of being stuck with whatever the developer wanted.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
7. Simple or complicated combat? Single or party-based combat? Point and click (Diablo, Morrowind) or combination-oriented (as in Gothic, Blade of Darkness, etc)?
Complex, party-based, turn-based combat. There has got to be a ton of options in combat, such as special moves, attacks, et cetera.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
8. Hundreds of spells or fewer, but more focused, spells?
Hundreds of spells, but they must be diverse. It is lame to have 20 spells that do the same thing, like healing, except with different intensities. Spells should be customizable, but not redundant.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
9. First-person view (Might & Magic games, Morrowind, Wizardry 8, Arx Fatalis, System Shock 2, etc), third-person over-the-shoulder (Blade of Darkness, Gothic), or third-person isometric, also known as "bird's eye" view (Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc)?
The perfect game would allow and support every one of these. The perfect CRPG will be the one which is totally customizable from the onset.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
10. Many skills and stats or fewer or no skills and stats?
Many complicated skills, based around a few basic stats.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
11. High fantasy (Tolkien, D&D, Elves, Dwarves, etc), gritty medieval fantasy (Gothic), or other unique fantasy (specify)?
Definately high tolkienesque fantasy.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
12. Instead of fantasy, science fiction? Space opera (Star Wars, etc), apocalyptic (Fallout), near-future (Deus Ex), space ships/stations (System Shock 1 & 2), alien invasion, or a mix of science fiction and fantasy (Might & Magic, Wizardry games)?
No, unless its cool sci-fi like Star Wars, or Star Trek, or Star Gate SG1. And I ABSOLUTELY HATE sci-fi mixed with fantasy. The two have nothing to do with each other. Wizardry 8 and that Arcanum Steamworks game are my least favorite games of all time. I cant stand the settings.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
13. Custom rules set made up by the developer, D&D ruleset, GURPS ruleset, SPECIAL (from Fallout, soon Lionheart), or other?
Custom rules set. The developers of the perfect CRPG will have to be geniuses, and the most ingenious systems are not copy-cats.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
14. 2D or 3D?
BOTH! I would like to fight both ways. The perfect game would allow both viewpoint options for combat, moving around, ect... I doubt this would ever happen though. Too many resources.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
15. Lots of possible interaction with the surroundings or little interaction with the surroundings?
Lots of interaction with the surroundings. You should be able to do anything possible with anything in the gameworld.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
16. Linear, directed exploration (Icewind Dale) or free-form, non-linear exploration (Fallout 1 & 2, Gothic, Morrowind)?
It should be mostly non-linear gameplay, with medium-length events that are linear. So a mixture of both.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
17. Interaction in world politics and factions?
Definately. And lets take it to the next level. Politics should be dynamic, pseudo-randomly occurances in the gameworld. If you want to represent politics, it has got to be believable. Static politics and factions are like they were in Morrowind, that is PART OF A STORY SCRIPT and not really alive and kicking.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
18. Ability to create or choose from many avatars (main characters) or one avatar?
The first one. Hardcore players must be able to create totally customized characters for themselves, and casual players should be given the option to pick out a character that was already defined for them.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
19. No history for character, except what the player has created or thought of, or pre-written history for the main character?
I think initially there should be no history, but the history would be written on the fly as the character advances in the storyline. Of course, there should be a sort of background, but nothing lavish.
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
20. Random dungeons and areas or hand-made dungeons and areas?
A mixture of both. The best solution would be to incorporate elements of both of those so as to create a sort of never-ending diversity.
And you missed one question:
21. What should the artificial intelligence be like?
It should be incredible. It should be believable. And most importantly it should be revolutionary. Too many designers are lazy when it comes to this. Its a shame. Either they use scripts that repeat over and over or they use randomness. They should instead use a mixture of both. Random scripts, but very intelligent.
Thanks for your time. I would make this game if it wasnt for lack of money. I do have the talent to do it, both not the resources.  Oh well, i guess i will be content playing other peoples' CRPGs...  |
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Fri Dec 13, 2002 8:56 pm |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
| Re: What features would be in your "ideal" CRPG? |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ammon777
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
What would you like to see in the CRPG of your dreams?
And you missed one question:
21. What should the artificial intelligence be like?
It should be incredible. It should be believable. And most importantly it should be revolutionary. Too many designers are lazy when it comes to this. Its a shame. Either they use scripts that repeat over and over or they use randomness. They should instead use a mixture of both. Random scripts, but very intelligent.
Thanks for your time. I would make this game if it wasnt for lack of money. I do have the talent to do it, both not the resources. Oh well, i guess i will be content playing other peoples' CRPGs...
You're right, I did miss that question. Thought I nearly got it all.  I don't think it's so much the designers are lazy, but rather, from my discussions with them, that they simply don't have the proper resources or time to dedicate to scripting great AI. AI scripting is often one of the last things worked on in a project, because they need the programmers writing code for other things. But I would love to see more companies have one or two dedicated programmers to script fantastic AI. Gothic, which I'm playing right now, is a good example of what it can be, and a mark which other developers should surpass.
_________________
Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:43 am |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
| Re: What features would be in your "ideal" CRPG? |
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What would you like to see in the CRPG of your dreams? Well...
1. Heavy, medium, or light on story?
Detailed, complicated, dynamic plot, so heavy on story. The CRPGs I have enjoyed the most have often had good stories. A good story keeps me playing the game, and a lack of one the most common reason why I don't finish one. (E.g. Dungeon Siege.)
2. Spoken dialogue or written text?
Spoken dialogue for important characters. Good voice actors can add a lot of insight and depth to character dialogue. Written text for regular or minor NPCs. Written text should be available for both important and non-important NPCs.
3. One main character or a group of characters?
It depends, but I like playing one main character. It's easier for me to focus on that character as "me" in game than for me to focus on many characters as "we." A group of characters is also fun though. The roleplaying thrill shifts to a strategic enjoyment.
4. Lots of dialogue text or not much?
I read fast, so I prefer a lot of text. Not so much text that it rivals War and Peace but not so little that the characters would've fared better silent.
5. Extensive amount of background material on the world and its history, in such things as books, maps, and legends?
An extensive background of the world makes it more real. History isn't a static thing--it is alive, made by the moment. That should be reflected in the game. Things from the past should influence the present and the future. There should be noticeable continuations and discontinuations of trends, cultures, and peoples.
6. Action-oriented with lots of fighting, an even mix of fighting, quest solving, and character interaction, or heavy emphasis on non-violent solutions to quests and character interaction?
An even mix of fighting, quests, and character interaction. What is the point of getting spells, armor, and weapons if you can't use them? There should be some fighting when I want to get my blood pumping. Some quest and puzzle solving when I want to challenge my mind or appease my ethical and social side. And times when I want to talk, because I am not a mute.
7. Simple or complicated combat? Single or party-based combat? Point and click (Diablo, Morrowind) or combination-oriented (as in Gothic, Blade of Darkness, etc)?
If it's party-based, combat needs to simplified for individual characters to an extent, and focused on creating complicated party combat. Controlling several characters raises the level of difficulty and micromanagement needed. If it's a single, main character, complicated and combination-oriented combat is more desirable. Point-and-click combat is disappointing and hollow.
8. Hundreds of spells or fewer, but more focused, spells?
Fewer but more focused and unique spells. When there are hundreds of spells, I forget to use 75% of them, restricting my choices to the most important ones like fireball, heal, etc. If there are fewer, I can remember what more of them do, and use them appropriately. I hate new spells which are endless minor improvements on basic spells, a la EverQuest.
9. First-person view (Might & Magic games, Morrowind, Wizardry 8, Arx Fatalis, System Shock 2, etc), third-person over-the-shoulder (Blade of Darkness, Gothic), or third-person isometric, also known as "bird's eye" view (Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc)?
I like first-person and over-the-shoulder views more. It puts me closer to the action and more in-character. I feel isometric 3rd person distances me from my character and the game world. I feel like my characters are miniatures. Other good game elements can overcome this and increase immersion. First-person has the advantage of having you literally see through the character's eyes, and experience things first-hand.
10. Many skills and stats or fewer or no skills and stats?
Many skills, fewer stats provided its organized and understandable. Skills should be distinct with no repeats.
11. High fantasy (Tolkien, D&D, Elves, Dwarves, etc), gritty medieval fantasy (Gothic), or other unique fantasy (specify)?
Quality of the story depends how much I'm willing to play the game. It can be high fantasy, and I'll enjoy it if it doesn't resort to cliches or formulaic save-the-world plots. But my personal favorite is realistic, gritty, medieval settings. Second to that would be historical settings, such as ancient Greece.
12. Instead of fantasy, science fiction? Space opera (Star Wars, etc), apocalyptic (Fallout), near-future (Deus Ex), space ships/stations (System Shock 1 & 2), alien invasion, or a mix of science fiction and fantasy (Might & Magic, Wizardry games)?
I like science fiction. Depends on how well the story is done.
13. Custom rules set made up by the developer, D&D ruleset, GURPS ruleset, SPECIAL (from Fallout, soon Lionheart), or other?
In the order of preference, SPECIAL, custom rules, and finally D&D.
14. 2D or 3D?
2D was good, but I think 3D offers more opportunity and freedom if done well. 2D should not be dismissed though.
15. Lots of possible interaction with the surroundings or little interaction with the surroundings?
Lots of interaction. Reinforces immersion.
16. Linear, directed exploration (Icewind Dale) or free-form, non-linear exploration (Fallout 1 & 2, Gothic, Morrowind)?
Contingent upon the story. If it's a story that requires strong direction, linearity is probably a better way. If the story can be structured to be non-linear, that's great. If non-linearity scatters the plot and thins it, I would prefer more linearity.
17. Interaction in world politics and factions?
Yes. I want to scheme, backstab, sucker, and mislead as many poor souls as I can. I want to feel my impact upon the game world.
18. Ability to create or choose from many avatars (main characters) or one avatar?
Create my own avatar.
19. No history for character, except what the player has created or thought of, or pre-written history for the main character?
Some pre-written information, but I also like writing my own histories or biographies.
20. Random dungeons and areas or hand-made dungeons and areas?
Hand-made areas. Random dungeons become all the same after a while. Too many hand-made dungeons can fall into the same trap. Keep dungeons fewer and more unique and worked on.
_________________
Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:29 am |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
quote:
Originally posted by xSamhainx
I think the combat system in that old game Die By the Sword was a step in the right direction. Maybe not that exact model, it had its probs, but something along those lines of "tru-swing" with a sword or whatever other type of weapon, where you physically do the slashing. Point and click just leaves me so unfulfilled sometimes ='.'=
I think so too. It was a good game for the time, though the controls were a little awkward. I think a better implementation of this can be found in Blade of Darkness and Gothic. When you're playing a single main character, this type of combat really allows your character to shine, doing cool, detailed moves that he or she probably wouldn't be doing in a party-based game.
_________________
Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:41 am |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
| Re: What features would be in your "ideal" CRPG? |
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quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
AI scripting is often one of the last things worked on in a project, because they need the programmers writing code for other things. But I would love to see more companies have one or two dedicated programmers to script fantastic AI. Gothic, which I'm playing right now, is a good example of what it can be, and a mark which other developers should surpass.
Do we really (since the discussion is about what we REALLY want) want just scripted AI (this isn't AI in any real sense) or do we want REAL AI? Real AI isn't scripted but rather borne of a true intelligence engine and there will be sizeable differences in response of the AI and thus how the game will play.
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:21 pm |
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