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Windwalking
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 227
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| Newbie seeks general char creation advice... |
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Hey all, I just got the game (partly due to your enthusiastic responses in anoter thread  , and I was just looking for some general advice, as I am pretty unfamiliar with the Wizardry world. I generally don't like to get help the first time through a game (this is actually my first time requesting it for my first run), but Wiz seems like the type of game where the creation is important and unforgiving (to a point)... Anyway...
- How important are the misc. attributes like Artifacts, Myth and Comm. for the typical party member? Do you just need one character to be good at each of these or should most of the characters have some of these skills? I don't really know how practically important they are in the game, and I'd rather not have restart 10 hours into it 
- Should mages and the like specialize in certain realms only, neglecting the others (i.e. only Fire and Air, screw Water and mental)?
- Are 3 secondary buff types (i.e. Samurai, Valkyrie, Rogue), enough for the game?
- Are the magical skills of the dual-type classes (Samurai, Lord, Valk) sufficient for their spellbook-types? Or should I not rely on Lords for priest spellbook, and instead go with a full priest or bishop?
- One idea I was tinkering with was to go with 4 dual-type classes, 1 dedicated magician (bishop, probably), and a rogue/bard type class. The problem is that it would leave me magic-lite if the dual-type classes weren't really sufficient magically...
- Also, a VERY newbie question: can you increase skill levels simply through practice (ie by repeated usage, and not by level gaining)? I saw a post that implied such, even though I don't think the manual makes a specific mention of this...
Well, thanks for reading, if you got this far. I'm just a bit confused at all the options
- Wind |
Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:43 pm |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
Artifacts, Communication and Myth:
train only one character in these skills
It is good to cover all spellbooks with your party. (A Bishop can learn all spells - but it takes a lot of time and casting)
Valkyries and Lords are good healers. It is cool to have many healers in a party.
rule of thumb for a good party mix:
use 2 mage types
use 3 fighter types
use 1 out of these: Gadgeteer, Bard
never use a Rogue (too weak)
avoid dual classing - make a good mix at the beginning and then stick with your party and max their stats !
happy gaming 
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:41 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
OK, let's see here....
1) Artifacts, Mythology, and Communication will all advance quite nicely on their own. Unless you have a specific desire, never spend any points (starting or levelling) on these skills for anyone.
2) After all is said and done, your casters will probably be reasonably good at all 6 realms. In the beginning, pumping points into 1 or 2 realms is a good idea to allow yourself a couple spells that you can cast at higher power levels. As for which ones, depends on the book (Wiz, Psi, Alch, Div) and on what you want your caster to do. For example, I usually pump points into water for whoever is covering the Wiz book to get a better result from the "Freeze flesh" spell.
3) For party composition, I agree with what HiddenX said.
4) Hybrid casters can get quite good with their spells as the game goes on, so they are OK to cover books. Remember that they don't learn spells until level 5, and will always be 5 levels behind a pure caster. That said, I would not rely on a hybrid to cover the Divinity book, because that means you won't get a heal spell until someone makes level 5- not impossible but certainly a tall challenge.
5) 4 combat-types/1 magic/1thief is do-able, but will be very challenging. While the bishop covers everything for you, they develop slowly, and will only be able to do one thing for you each round. Wanna cast a massive fireball? Hope noone in the party needs healed that round. Later in the game, you'll want to start most combats with a high-powered soul shield AND an elemental shield. You'll have to choose.
6) After each battle, your party will usually get skill increases based on what they did during combat. That fighter that whacked a few critters with his sword might get a point in "sword". Is it a critter that he hasn't seen before and gets a good look at? He might get a point in "mythology". And so it goes for every character.
7) I seem to be the biggest idiot here. After finishing the demo 6 times, I still restarted 5 times before I felt like I had a good party and a good plan for their development. There's no shame in starting over if something you try isn't working- just some lost time.
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Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:13 am |
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Windwalking
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 227
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Thanks for your help folks. This is what I've chosen:
Felpurr Samurai
Elf Valkyrie
Mook Ranger
Elf Bishop
Human Mage
Human Gadgeteer
(I didn't feel like putting lizardmen or dracons because they don't seem to fit with a good-oriented party... call it racial stereotyping, I guess ... and hobbits are Tolkien's creation, and should remain that way...)
- Wind |
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 4:40 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Looks like a good party to me. You might consider making the samurai a female. When you get to the first town, I think you'll understand why. The gadgeteer might also benefit, but since they come into their powers later in the game, it might not be overly critical.
Since I tried so hard to sound like I had a clue, I ought to correct a mistake I made. In #4, I said you needed divinity for a heal spell. That ain't so. The heal spell is also in the psionic and alchemy books. Someone using the divinity book will probably beef up their divine realm pretty quickly as well, and be able to cast a more powerful heal, but a straight psionic or alchemist would (technically) serve just as well. Bottom line- I implied you needed a priest or bishop, when the psionic and alchemist should also be amongst the choices.
Enjoy the game! Let us know if you get stuck, or if you come up with a good trick.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 4:56 am |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
Looks like a good party - you like Elves ? - i would change the Elf Valkyrie to a Dwarfen Valkyrie, she doesn't look so good , but she has more power and a better constitution.
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 8:14 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Your party is absolutely playable. (Most of them are ). However I want you to consider the following.
The hybrids, Valkyrie and Samurai are playable, but they never will come close to a real fighter in melee attack, and their magic capabilities are troublesome to train. Their magical powers are often nothing worth in the middle/end game unless you very much neglect their melee powers.
Besides the hybrids will be much slower in upgrading than the pure characters.
The same is true for the priest against the bishop. sure the Bishop can learn all spellbooks, and the priest only "Divine"! But the Divine spellbook covers all the aiding spells, which your mage don't, and the priest still got the most powerfull offensive spells at his disposion later in the game. The bishop may however be a bit more flexible for his/her diversity.
Here are my suggestion for the most important spells: "Soul shield", "Magic screen", "Elemental shield", "Heal all", "Asphyxiation", "Missile shield", "Death wish", "Rest all", "Return/set portal", "Resurrection".
Others worth mention is: Cure paralysis/disease/poison, Shadow hound, web, armorplate, sane mind, restoration, bless, summon elemental, noxious fumes, and silence. Other spells can be usefull as well, but (Grand)mastering the mentioned, and nothing will be to strong for you.
Just remember that even you can't learn some of the spells in the beginning, it's important that you cast other spells in the same realms, to strengthen your powers in the realm by learning.
Regarding "level up": Put only points in your characters 2 main attributes (Strength, intelligense, wisdom, etc.) until they reach 100, so you can trigger the "master skills" which are connected to each attribute.
Regarding using skill points, don't use them on Misc. skills, as they automatically will upgrade by using in the tempo you need them!
Always put points in your "master skills" first no matter the characters occupation. Then for
Mages/priest/Psionics/alchemist/Bishops into their spellbooks first (not the realms), and then the realms of your preference.
Gadgeteers: Engeneer, locks & traps and then ranged combat!
Bard: Music and then attack skill of preference
Rogue: Locks & Traps and then attack skills of preference
Fighters: Attack skills only
With all the hybrids: Samurai, Ninja, Lord, Valkyrie you have the decision, if you either want to strenghten their weapon skills or their magic skills. You don't have points enough to strenghten both besides your "master skills". Thats another argument against the hybrids IMHO.
This is all only informations as I have experienced from the game, and I know your current party will do fine anyway. Actual there is no party which can't make it through the game, it's just about how hard a time you will get in some situations.
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 9:35 am |
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Windwalking
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 227
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quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
Since I tried so hard to sound like I had a clue, I ought to correct a mistake I made. In #4, I said you needed divinity for a heal spell. That ain't so. The heal spell is also in the psionic and alchemy books. Someone using the divinity book will probably beef up their divine realm pretty quickly as well, and be able to cast a more powerful heal, but a straight psionic or alchemist would (technically) serve just as well. Bottom line- I implied you needed a priest or bishop, when the psionic and alchemist should also be amongst the choices.
Enjoy the game! Let us know if you get stuck, or if you come up with a good trick.
Heh, one "trick" I've learned (which is probably pretty obvious to y'all) is to back around a corner when facing a bunch of ranged beasts. That way, in order to hit you, they have to come up to within range of your melee folk...
I was pretty excited when facing those annoying spitting spiders and figuring this out, you see
- Wind |
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 10:22 am |
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Windwalking
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 227
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quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
Since I tried so hard to sound like I had a clue, I ought to correct a mistake I made. In #4, I said you needed divinity for a heal spell. That ain't so. The heal spell is also in the psionic and alchemy books. Someone using the divinity book will probably beef up their divine realm pretty quickly as well, and be able to cast a more powerful heal, but a straight psionic or alchemist would (technically) serve just as well. Bottom line- I implied you needed a priest or bishop, when the psionic and alchemist should also be amongst the choices.
Enjoy the game! Let us know if you get stuck, or if you come up with a good trick.
Heh, one "trick" I've learned (which is probably pretty obvious to y'all) is to back around a corner when facing a bunch of ranged beasts. That way, in order to hit you, they have to come up to within range of your melee folk...
I was pretty excited when facing those annoying spitting spiders and figuring this out, you see
- Wind |
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 10:25 am |
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Windwalking
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 227
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quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
Enjoy the game! Let us know if you get stuck, or if you come up with a good trick.
Heh, one "trick" I've learned (which is probably pretty obvious to y'all) is to back around a corner when facing a bunch of ranged beasts. That way, in order to hit you, they have to come up to within range of your melee folk...
I was pretty excited when facing those annoying spitting spiders and figuring this out, you see
- Wind |
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 10:27 am |
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Windwalking
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 227
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Heh, I kept trying to post but my browser didn't seem to want to submit it, so I tried deleting the quote stuff because maybe it had problems posting it... But I guess it posted all of them (stupid Internet Explorer doesn't seem to like telling you if it submitted info or not)
oh well...
- Wind |
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 10:31 am |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
MichaelC:
A Fighter is better in the beginning, but on the long run a Samurai and Valkyrie are much better. My Valkyrie could heal like a priest, fight like a fighter, and not to forget cheat death. The Samurai had the most killings in my party (played over the triology Wizardry 6, 7, 8 ) his Lightning Strike Skill, Critical Strike Skill and Sword Skill, combined later with Snakespeed and Powerstrike makes him the best fighter IMHO
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 10:36 am |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
quote:
Originally posted by Windwalking
(I didn't feel like putting lizardmen or dracons because they don't seem to fit with a good-oriented party... call it racial stereotyping, I guess ... and hobbits are Tolkien's creation, and should remain that way...)
- Wind
I resent that remark! I very much enjoy being here in the Wiz8 forum and at RPGDot, and am glad to be able to get out of Tolkien's world once in a while.
Your party is playable. Since you've already started with it, I won't comment much further except to say for future reference and for anyone else who hasn't started yet:
1) My second party (as people who have been around here know) was along the lines of what you originally suggested: Ninja, Samurai, Valkyrie, Monk, Gadgeteer, Bishop. 4 hybrids fighter-casters / thief type / pure spell caster. So far, I found it to be harder than with the party I first won with (Ranger, Monk, Lord, Priest, Bard, Mage). The hybrid classes are tougher to develop than pure classes, especially the ninja and bishop. Long term, however, I expect more production out of them. We'll see if that's true.
2) Make sure your party has at least one "pure" caster of priest, alchemist or psionic. You'll want the heal wounds spell early.
3) For newbies, I'd recommend you take a pure priest and mage. They're easy to develop, and you'll know from other RPGs how to use them.
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The world itself shifts and changes and fades to mist like the strings of a minstrel's harp, and mayhap the dreams we forge are more enduring than the works of kings and gods.-Robert E. Howard
=Member of the RPGDot Shadows, The Nonflamers' Guild, and The Alliance of Middle Earth= |
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:31 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
quote:
Originally posted by HiddenX
MichaelC:
A Fighter is better in the beginning, but on the long run a Samurai and Valkyrie are much better. My Valkyrie could heal like a priest, fight like a fighter, and not to forget cheat death. The Samurai had the most killings in my party (played over the triology Wizardry 6, 7, 8 ) his Lightning Strike Skill, Critical Strike Skill and Sword Skill, combined later with Snakespeed and Powerstrike makes him the best fighter IMHO
The fighter will get snakespeed and powerstrike much earlier than the samurai, due to his much faster level up and much higher starting attributes in the important ones for a melee fighter. I've never been able to drag the game for so long, that the samurai would get up close to the fighters level. But okay it's also a matter of which melee weapon you give your characters, it can tip the scale for any melee fighters deathcount if they get the right weapons, with a good change of "instant death".
"Death-count" is not the ultimate prove on the best character. The much faster fighter gets the first strikes, and the samurai just finish them of and get all the credit for the kill. Also the powerfull mages don't get the full credit for their deadly magic.
BTW: The double weapon skill is not worth investing points in, as their are no real powerfull secon hand weapons, that can match the best primary swords. Skip the second weapon, and get even more swings with you primary weapon, or use a twohanded!
The Valkyrie: "Cheat death" can save your party in the beginning, and is a nice feature, but if the Valkyrie should be able to use the "Heal all" spell like a priest, she must neglect her melee skills very much, or you got a very poor priest to compare with!
I don't know about Wizardry 6 or 7, or how importing characters from those games come out in W8!
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:23 am |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
MichaelC:
We are playing differently i think
My Ninja and my Samurai use 2 weapons to get more criticals and hits, and there are good secondary weapons. The main weapon for the Samurai can only be a sword, but these are the best weapons in the game: *light aword*, Excalibur, Bushido Blade, Fang ....
My Valkyrie (in a team with Vi) is a Lance Fighter with a cool fighting range.
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:57 am |
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