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Dorkus
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Jun 2002
Posts: 11
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| Magic training -- does it really work? |
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Well, I'm new to the game, and I tried using my Alchemist to cast Stamina (with a power of 12 points in each cast) about 2 dozen times, resting in between each cast. Yet I didn't get ANY gain in alchemy (which is around 15 or so) OR water (which is around 10).
Am I doing something wrong? Can you only get skill upgrades after combat? Or should I be casting the lower power version of stamina (I assumed taht high power == faster upgrades).
Or do I need to just keep on casting? I'm almost SURE that's not the case, since I've gotten magic skill upgrades after far fewer castings for combat spells.
Thanks for any responses ahead of time!
PS this is a repeat post from another message board. apologies to those of you for whom this is redundant! |
Sun Jun 09, 2002 7:01 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Well, are any of your characters drained on stamina? If not, then I think that's the problem. The combat spells you use are doing something. I noticed that when I cast a healing spell on someone and they are injured then my skill will go up. But I tried casting it over and over on a character with full health and there was no increase in skills. The best way to build skills in you magic users quickly is to cast defense spells that are cast outside of combat. You just cast the spell and when it runs out, recast. You'll find that your skills increase faster and you get the added benifits of that spell being in effect.
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 7:15 pm |
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Guest
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Either search here for a link or use your browser to find JRANDALL's or AVENSTAR's site. They've both got good ways to practise magic.
Alchemy can be increased by mixing potions, too.
Spells to heal various conditions won't advance your skill unless the condition exists. |
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 10:19 pm |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
3 observations about magic development:
1) If you cast a durational non-combat spell (e.g. armorplate, missile shield, etc. - there are 9 of them) that is already in effect, you still get the benefits of casting it towards skill improvement. But your second spell will supercede your first spell. So let's say you're trying to bulk up your fire points using the light spell, and you have 16 points in the fire realm. You could cast it 3 times 7,7,2 and then go on your merry way. But this will leave you with a power level 2 light instead of a power level 7 light during this part of your adventures. So you probably want to reverse the order and cast it 2,7,7.
2) I agree with Val's observation about skills not improving if you cast unnecessary permanent effect spells (ex: healing an uninjured character or giving stamina to a fully rested one). But you do gain skill if you overcast the spell - i.e. you have a character who's only missing 1 HP, but you cast a level 7 healing spell anyway.
3) Based upon my observations (and this is not scientifically done, so I'm using rough numbers) you need to cast about 10x the points to go up to the next realm skill level. For example, if your fire realm skill is 0, you need to cast about 10 points of fire spells to get it to 1. Then to get it from 1 to 2, you need to cast about another 20 points of fire spells. And to go from 99 to 100, you need to cast about another 1000 points of fire spells. I suspect the major skills - wizardry, divinity, alchemy & psionics work in a similar manner. I will leave it as an exercise to someone else to quantify this part of it.
Now, having said all that in #3 above, let me pose another question to those who have played the bishop character more intensively than I have (my first party didn't have a bishop, and my second party is only up to level 6). Some spells belong to more than one school of magic - like heal wounds is in divinity, alchemy and psionic. So if my bishop casts heal wounds, which magic school benefits and, if you know, why? (Clearly it doesn't matter to his divine realm skills, as he will benefit there anyway, but that is not my question.)
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The world itself shifts and changes and fades to mist like the strings of a minstrel's harp, and mayhap the dreams we forge are more enduring than the works of kings and gods.-Robert E. Howard
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 10:31 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
IIRC, the bishop casts a spell from his best applicable school. So a bishop with 25 divinity, 55 psionic, and 60 alchemy will cast heal wounds as an alchemy spell, with skill increases going into the alchemy book and the divine realm.
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Sun Jun 09, 2002 11:02 pm |
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Guest
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For a Bishop, my favorite development is: Charm for Div & Mindread for Psi (div must stay higher than Psi). With Mana Stones, you don't even have to rest, you can get to 100 in an hour of game time.
For Alc, i like to start mixing as soon as i get 15, mix until i get to 30, then cast Knock-Knock at the vault door to Alc 50, then mixing all the Sneeze and Flashes i've been saving up, and the potions that have been stacking up at Braffit usually gets me right up to the 90's; a few more Knocks takes me to 100.
For Wiz, i usually spend one level as a Mage casting Knock-Knock. This is another good one, with mana stones you can cast it back-to-back continuously, the game-time this takes up is the trip back to reload the stones.
If your Wiz stays ahead of your Alc, you don't have to change class, just use mixing to raise Alc and keep your Knocking-for-Wiz ahead of that. (i'm usually to impatient to keep sleeping just to get more potions in the inventories)
I also usually have a Ninja and/or Ranger, so that can get to be quite a burden on the potion-mixing if you don't Knock for the Bishop, too. |
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Mon Jun 10, 2002 12:31 am |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
quote:
Originally posted by Bilbo
3) Based upon my observations (and this is not scientifically done, so I'm using rough numbers) you need to cast about 10x the points to go up to the next realm skill level. For example, if your fire realm skill is 0, you need to cast about 10 points of fire spells to get it to 1. Then to get it from 1 to 2, you need to cast about another 20 points of fire spells. And to go from 99 to 100, you need to cast about another 1000 points of fire spells. I suspect the major skills - wizardry, divinity, alchemy & psionics work in a similar manner. I will leave it as an exercise to someone else to quantify this part of it.
I've brought back up this thread to correct what I said a long time ago. In doing a little more experimenting, I've discovered magic skill improvement is not as linear as I thought, and there's a random element. Here's how I proved I was wrong originally: I saved my game. I had my bishop cast a divine spell from the mage's spell book. First time I cast it, I gained wizardry skill, but nothing in the divine realm. I then re-loaded from the exact same point and re-cast the same spell at the same level. This time my divine realm skill increased without the wizardry skill. I continued on and the next time my bishop cast a "mage" spell her wizardry skill went up. Also, as noted elsewhere, intelligence has an effect on how quickly your skills improve, which I never factored into my original analysis.
_________________
The world itself shifts and changes and fades to mist like the strings of a minstrel's harp, and mayhap the dreams we forge are more enduring than the works of kings and gods.-Robert E. Howard
=Member of the RPGDot Shadows, The Nonflamers' Guild, and The Alliance of Middle Earth= |
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Sun Jul 28, 2002 8:08 pm |
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Windwalking
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 227
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Wow, you can reload magic stones? Where would you do such a thing?
And by the way, Bilbo, I think you're right about the linear growth of the requirements for skill advancement, and also about how it's randomized around growing requirements. Before, my gadgeteer could gain a skill point with 2 uses of Forcefield Generator. Then it just got gradually slower and slower, and not really exponentially so...
Though I could be talking out of my arse 
- Wind |
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Sun Jul 28, 2002 9:41 pm |
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otter
One of Us
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 1337
Location: Portland, OR |
Well, the worst part of that is when you get to 95, there's a big parabola to 100.
Mana Stones, like most things with charges, get rloaded when you sell them--just buy them back for a small mark-up, from any Merchant who'll buy them. (many do who don't sell them) |
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Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:57 am |
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