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Val
Risen From Ashes

Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Ah good, a discussion is forming. *rubs hands together*
While JFK was a decent President, I think he gets over-rated. He gave us a lot of nice catch-phrases, but over time the glamour will wear off. He ushered in the trend of being an image first, then a man second. He did do several important things though. So I'd rate him at above average. That'd put him in my top twenty.
@vaticide: I think you're over-rating Grant a bit. He did a lot of important work in the Reconstruction and guarunteeing blacks' right to vote (which later got shot down unfortunately). He also tried to help Native Americans with some mixed success. He handled the problem with the soft greenback currency admirably. The arbitration of the dispute with Britian was also an excellent example of settling international disputes peacefully. But his administration did have it's problems with corruption. I do think he gets more grief than he deserves and certainly not enough credit.
@Lintra and Lawanda: Well, the book I'm reading agrees with your placement of George Washington at the top.
As for Hamilton, I agree, he spent a great deal of time working to ensure that the nation he had helped to build would be kept in the hands of the right men (men of character) who would not send the nation into ruin.
@Bartacus: Reagan was an intelligent and charismatic man who worked his way up from the bottom. Simply because you do not agree with his beliefs and policies does not make him unintelligent. He was a decent man and a true civil servant.
@Roqua: Always a pleasure to hear from you, Roqua. Even though I feel like I'm being barked at by a drill sergeant.
Why leave LBJ out? Two words: Great Society.
Bleh.
While I think Nixon was a good President, I wouldn't put him in my top ten. He's definately one of our better ex-Presidents however. _________________ Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:44 am |
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Roqua
High Emperor


Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
good to hjear from you also Val.
I wish I had more time to post, but last semester I had college algebra and this semester I have calc, and math has sucked up all my free time. I say you research what president was in charge when inocent civilians were forced to learn this useless nonsense. Math is so rediculously useless to me. MS Excel and a calculator does every math thing I could want.
I passed bustats and finance and op management without algebra or math yet I have to take them. And guess what? In all the classes that you need to know algebra and math to pass (that I passed without) you get real numbers as answers. If I tried turning in some gibberish nonsense to my finace teacher like 4x cube root four - 8 I would of flunked. They make you learn imaginary numbers.
Let me repeate for emphasise. I am forced to learn IMAGINARY numbers. Numbvers that do not exist. Why on God's green earth did I learn that?
Do you know what I'm learning in calc? How to tell which way a line curves. Who gives a %&^&^%$&^%? I will never be given a bunch of nonsense gibberish and asked tosee what it looks like on a graph. Never. I am an HR major. I will never be asked to factor dont 14abcdefg2768dwhjahhjk379o21w98edj77ewq779899 power root, stop, quatdratic gay gay gay. That will never happen.
Thank god my wifes oriental. She actually likes this useless gibberish. My profs hate me because my goal is to prove math wrong. Just once. Thats all I want. My profs don't even know why a neg times a neg is positive. Idiots. They blindly accept gibberish. Not me. I want proof.
My wife says I need to learn it because thats how TVs and cumputers, etc work and we wouldn't have buildings without math. Pishh. Lies. I TV and computer works because you plugged them in. My house was here before I took calculus.
I strongly support the war in Iraq for the sole reasonn that Muslims invinted algebra. They must pay dearly for inflicting such evil on the world. Because of them I am forced to do calculus for at least 3 hours a day doing calc homework. Damn them. Double damn them.
Everyones has the same reason for learning calc. "its important, we wouldn't have this and that without math. Businesses use calc all the time." That is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Without oxegen there wouldn't be algebra or calculus or business, I don't know how that works. I don't know how the Calvin-Benson cycle works. I don't know why a tree is good. I don't know why breasts turn me on. It just does. As long as there are math loving fools like my wife I don't need to know how math works. Give me real numbers, a formula, a calculator and MS Excel and I'll get you the info you want. Let the math-lovers figure out why the tools I use to get the numbers work.
So i would post more but if I take in too much info the useless math info leaves my head. Ahh, its good to vent.
And, like a politician, you didn't explain why its okay to leave to men that gave shelter to, defended, protected, and liked known enemy soviet spies, or the fact that they liked and sympathized with mass-murder tyrants. _________________ Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:50 am |
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Roqua
High Emperor


Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
Correction, I took college algebra as a summer class, 3 hours a day, 4 days a week for 8 weeks. It was horrible. Almost as horrible as calc. _________________ Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:52 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer

Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
A bit of CTB, but this is just too fun to pass up. You see, Roqua, it's all about making "well-rounded" graduates. Us poor engineers were forced to take all sorts of worthless humanities classes in the name of a well-rounded education. It's only fair that you liberal arts types get to experience something that actually requires some thought. Think of it this way-- you could be studying "Budgeting a la Kerry", some very imaginary numbers that don't add up. _________________ =Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:17 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend

Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
Imaginary numbers are the best!
My all time favorite formula: e^(i {pi}) = -1 hmmm that doesn't work that well in this format.
But e to the quantity (i times pi) = -1 covers the three building blocks of classical math ... and sums it all up in a tidy bundle. From there you can go almost anywhere.
And just for the record: With out imaginary numbers most of modern math, and physics, falls apart. _________________ =Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:07 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor


Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
Lintra: Just for the record, without imaginary numbers there would only be real numbers. I can invent an imaginay number also. The number is flama-dama-ding-dong. I bet they won't teach that in school.
Again, as long as some people understand jibberish the rest of the world is safe.
HR is not a liberal art, it is a vital function of business like accounting, finance, marketing, operations, sales, etc.
HR is math heavy, jibberish light. I work in finance now which is all math, but it is formulas that give you are real number. An actual answer that is useful to a business. If my answer was 8x to the 187th power cubed root -54y + 76z-184 I would get fired. That answer is jibberish and does no one any good. All the key formulas I have learned so far in college algebra and calc I have never needed so far. Even the "e" function in algebra is different in finance.
Who should be forced to learn physics? Physicians. Who should be forced to learn calculus? Calculitians.
Should an engineer be forced to learn HR practices? Why not, it could help in learning what you can and can't say at work, can and can't joke about, why this job has a better comp and benny package, what you can and can't be fired for, what your rights as an employee are, what qualifies as a legaly binding employment contract, what exactly does right to work imply, etc, ect.
All college algebra has done for me is destroy my beautiful mind, suck up all the time i could be playing a game or posting at rpgdot, take away from my being the best farther I can to my daughter, and start numerous fights with my hippy math loving wife who vigorosly defends math even though it is crystal clear math is evil and just needs a crusader like me to prove it is wrong and expose it for being the root of all eveil in the world.
There was no crime in the world before math. When innocent poor people were forced to learn higher math in school the crime rate quadrupled. Murder rates skyrocketed. Old ladies and nuns were mugged and brutaly raped to death. Is this the kind of world you math lovers want to live in? I'm sure the old ladies and nuns and the innocent poor would beg to differ.
It is a proven fact that 98% of all math proffesors and treachers are child molestors and worship belzibub and sacrifice innocent kittens and puppies to him to further evil.
Sure math might have given us eletricity, and buildings, and bridges, and computers, and crpgs, and tvs, and all that useless nonsense; but does that balance out all the evil it has done? I am a victim of math. I will not go quietly into the night, I will rage against the evil machine and the industrialized nations that harbor the evil of math, nay--promote the evil math and force innocent children to learn it. I am moving to Africa were i will run naked with a jungle tribe that has given up all the "benefits" that math has given to "civilized societies." I will run naked with my African brothers through the jungle, with my jimmy swaying too and fro, and bask in nature and the grace of God and all the goodness that comes with a math free life.
Whats the crime rate in these tribes? Zero. How about rape and murder? Zero and Zero. All because math isn't present. If you side with math, you side with evil and will be damn for all eternity to H,E, double hockey-sticks.
Excuse my while I go destroy my brain cells getting the second derivitive of gibberish to test it and see which way a useless line curves. Weee. I'm helping society. Weee, weee, wee. _________________ Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:48 pm |
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Bartacus
Il Buono

Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
@Lintra sorry for the late response, but here it comes.
1. US Intelligence agencies and his staff.(advisors got more power) Off course every president of the US depends on a lot of them, but I had the feeling that it was much more with him.
2. My source: just a feeling I got from watching his speeches. It came over like a good and well prepared act.
Again I say that more presidents tend to have this, but I'm trying to explain why he isn't fit for the top ten.
Off course you can see this as a good thing too, cause in such a system more (as in more then one) intelligent people are pulling the strings. It has one downside however: Democracy doesn't exist at that time. Neither the director of the CIA, FBI, NSA or the staff is elected by the people.
Btw, I heard that since last time, you (US citizens) don't vote directly for a president anymore. That's like it is in most countries. (We vote for a party too and the premier is being chosen from the party who won the elections.) However I would feel more for the earlier system of the US. Certainly cause the way how it's done now. A vote from a man in NY hasn't got the same value of a vote in Texas I've heard. _________________ Moderator and Council Magician of the RPGDot Shadows
member of the Sports Fans Forum
Leader's Right Hand at the Gothic Rogues
NFG member |
Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:36 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor


Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
The president of the US has very limited power. The house and senate have veto power over everything the president does. So the president needs the support of both the house and senate to get things done. The senate and hoose can alos be vetoes by the president.
This election the president will pick about 2-4 S. Court justices. The S. Court has the most power over the US citizen. Will one different interpritation they can change things the house, senate, or Pres could never.
So the president has power in that way. The president also has appointment power and also the power to deploy troops for 90 days without approval of the the other checks and balance measures.
Sadly, people do vote for a party instead of a man. But a bipartisan system works out very well for us. It makes sure that nonsense doesn't get passed. Only things that benefit everyone can get done. As they say, only Nixon can go to China, only clinton could pass welfare reform, and only Bush could pass an education bill.
The fact remains Bart that you have not studied Reagan. Reagan won both elections in a land slide. His policies lowered inflation and because of that we, and the world, are still reaping the benefits. Look at Brazil now if you want to see what high inflation can do.
The first day Reagan took office the Iranians released the hostages, held for 444 days under Carter. The only people that don't like Reagan are communist sympathizers. And I'm pretty sure Reagan wouldn't want people who liked or sympathized with mass-murders and slave type governemnts to like him.
Out of all the people on the top ten list, Ron is the only shoe in. He should be number one.
Intelligence is inteklligence. Intelligence shouldn't be partisan. Very little changes in the intel department with a change of administration. _________________ Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:50 pm |
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Secret Agent Lawanda
The last thing you see...

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: World of Darkness (LA) |
@Val: Cynic, but I guess I see your point. _________________ -=Professional Secret Agent=-
Moderator of The Anime and Manga Fan Club |
Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:44 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes

Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
*glares at the CTBers*
@Roqua: I didn't really feel that arguing over that stuff. Especially during midterms.
Anyway, hears the book's list:
They took an ideologically balanced group of 132 prominent professors of history, law and political science to rate the presidents on a 5 point scale, with 5 meaning highly superior and 1 meaning well below average.
Great:
1. George Washington - 4.92
2. Abraham Lincoln - 4.87
3. Franklin Roosevelt - 4.67
Near Great:
4. Thomas Jefferson - 4.25
5. Theodore Roosevelt - 4.22
6. Andrew Jackson - 3.99
7. Harry Truman - 3.95
8. Ronald Reagan - 3.81
9. Dwight Eisenhower - 3.71
10. James Polk - 3.70
11. Woodrow Wilson - 3.68
Above Average:
12. Grover Cleveland - 3.36
13. John Adams - 3.36
14. William McKinley - 3.33
15. James Madison - 3.29
16. James Monroe - 3.27
17. Lyndon Johnson - 3.21
18. John Kennedy - 3.17
Average:
19. William Taft - 3.00
20. John Quincy Adams - 2.93
21. George H. W. Bush - 2.92
22. Rutherford Hayes - 2.79
23. Martin Van Buren - 2.77
24. Bill Clinton - 2.77
25. Calvin Coolidge - 2.71
26. Chester Arthur - 2.71
Below Average:
27. Benjamin Harrison - 2.62
28. Gerald Ford - 2.59
29. Herbert Hoover - 2.53
30. Jimmy Carter - 2.47
31. Zachary Taylor - 2.40
32. Ulysses Grant - 2.28
33. Richard Nixon - 2.22
34. John Tyler - 2.03
35. Millard Fillmore - 1.91
Failure:
36. Andrew Johnson - 1.65
37. Franklin Pierce - 1.58
38. Warren Harding - 1.58
39. James Buchanan - 1.33
William Harrison and James Garfield were left off due to their brief tenures and the book was written before G. W. Bush took office.
So, comments?
I was a bit surprised at a couple of the rankings. Some lower and some higher than I would have ranked them. Anything jump out at you guys? _________________ Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:49 am |
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Bartacus
Il Buono

Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
Clinto a bit further up (1 and Bush can get in the compagny of Gerald Ford. IMO there was a very good reason that you, USA citizens, didn't elect him for a second term. The top ten is already been discussed, so no further detail is needed. _________________ Moderator and Council Magician of the RPGDot Shadows
member of the Sports Fans Forum
Leader's Right Hand at the Gothic Rogues
NFG member |
Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:18 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord

Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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quote:
Great:
1. George Washington - 4.92
2. Abraham Lincoln - 4.87
3. Franklin Roosevelt - 4.67
Wars not make one great. - By Master Yoda _________________ Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:47 pm |
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Secret Agent Lawanda
The last thing you see...

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: World of Darkness (LA) |
Nope, it's what you do during that conflict that makes you great.
quote: Originally posted by Val
24. Bill Clinton - 2.77
wow, that was generous of them
@Bart: Dude, face it, 200 years from now, all that Clinton will be remembered for is getting a blowjob from an intern in the oval office. That's hardly the stuff of legend.
Okay, I'll probably sound dumb, but I don't even remember who Polk is. What'd he do?
I think they were too nice to Coolidge too. He was like Clinton. He didn't do a thing to improve anything. Carter should be in the failure catagory. _________________ -=Professional Secret Agent=-
Moderator of The Anime and Manga Fan Club |
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:27 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes

Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
@Bartacus: H. W. Bush was also a mediocre president, his ranking is accurate.
I think you could be a bit more gentle in breaking the news to the Clinton-enamored, Lawanda. They're not ready (and they probably never will be) to hear that Clinton really was a mediocre president. Your comparison of him to Coolidge isn't something I thought of before. It's shockingly accurate now that I think about it.
Your opinion of Carter is similar to mine.
Polk was like a little version of Andrew Jackson. He took office in 1845. He was a rather strong president that focused on restructuring the country's financial system and expanding the nation. He encouraged the expansion west so we could establish a presence in the Pacific and annexing Texas. Remember the Mexican War? That happened during his term. He also resolved the dispute over the Oregon territory. He did a lot for a guy who served only one term. I was surprised that he got ranked so high since he left office as a rather unpopular president. But I guess some of the stuff that he did does help to raise him above others. _________________ Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:26 am |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord

Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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I think peoples opinions on things like this are skewed. Even though a person's character is important what a President did or did not do depends more on the time he was President than the type of person he actually was.
I find that most people's opinion of historical figures is skewed toward wartime Presidents and Presidents closer to the beginning of the country. People also tend to give more weight to actions closer to their current time in history. Thus, people would give more weight to near loss (Carter failing to return hostages), than they do to a further away loss (British invading the White House and eating President's food). Plain-old peace and prosperity doesn't get you any points. _________________ Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:11 pm |
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